View Poll Results: will you upgrade to 2015 ?

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  • yes, of course

    102 41.13%
  • yes, the upgrade is worth it

    35 14.11%
  • no, too few features

    30 12.10%
  • no, way too few Modeler improvements

    27 10.89%
  • no, still waiting for integration

    18 7.26%
  • no, but maybe if we get a point upgrade

    22 8.87%
  • skipping this one

    14 5.65%
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Thread: LightWave 2015 - upgrade ?

  1. #136
    Pleased to meet you. Oedo 808's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    As far as modeler goes...

    if it were just new tools we were tlking about I would agree with you but it goes deeper then that. Its the whole system and certainly a new geometry engine is needed. And that cant be just added to Modeler, it hs to be a core part of the system, then every single tool would have to be rewritten to use it. The new modeling tools that were added in 11.5 werent added inside of modeler, they were sort of pushed in beside it.
    It's safe to assume I agree with this, though I know it can be hard to keep track of who said what. But I am talking just about new tools.

    And its good you mentioned LWCAD becaause again, its not that Viktor has extended modelers toolset.. its more like he built a modeler inside of modeler. He built his own system of on screen widgets and even added his own edge support since modeler doesnt actually support true edges (which is why when you use edges on something like LWCAD's mass round tool, you select edges as a part of the tool, not select edges using LW edge mode).
    I fail to believe that every tool is built on his own modeller, but that doesn't matter, it doesn't explain what appears from a search through plugins with the like of Pictrix et al. I did say that I supported focussing on architectural changes, but I also feel that doing barely anything in existing modeler isn't something I'm entirely happy with.

    While I understand that asking for things like a history stack and such are beyond what is realistic, I just don't believe that there's nothing that could be done that wouldn't be a herculean effort, in that it would take too long to do or that it would have no usefulness once the architectural changes were there. That's why I said I would like to see someone such as Art on the team that could maybe polish and add things to the depth of the tools he has made, as I felt that more realistic than asking for deep rooted changes or the usual calls of "Hire Viktor!" etc..

    With "no, way too few Modeler improvements" and "no, but maybe if we get a point upgrade" making up nigh on 20% of the respondents combined, I don't think it would be too outlandish to have something given to Modeler in one of the point release. I know that Modeler has its limitations but even without Viktor's contribution, the old "We've done all we can" is beginning to feel a little bit like telling teacher "The dog ate my homework" for the umpteenth time.

    Maybe it was a poor choice of words, it could have been "We've done all we are going to do." Which is different to the age old story of "We've done all we can do." in regards to Modeler. But I just don't feel that because of the need to modernize the architecture that LightWave is beyond benefiting from new additions to Modeler, and I'm sorry but seeing what has been achieved by others when I look through my plugin folder, I just don't believe it would be too difficult. I might have been content thus far, not any longer, but that's me.
    Sentenced to 310 years for crimes against modelling and rendering.

  2. #137
    Im sure that if they say "we've done all we can with modeler", its likely more akin to 'its more trouble then its worth and we're investing our time in more fruitful modeling gains' rather then 'we're physically unable to fix or add to modeler as is'. Either way, as usual, its out of our hand so we will just have to see what they have in store when the time comes.

  3. #138
    Pleased to meet you. Oedo 808's Avatar
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    Yeah I get that, and even though I've said that there is obviously room for development inside Modeler as it is, I was ok for even that to be forsaken prior to the advent of 2015, though I really hate to utter the forbidden word, the same could have been applied with Core, that it would have been better to ignore LightWave in its entirety and just work on that.

    But given the tools that people come out with, commercial or otherwise, and sometimes following a request by someone in the community, developing for Modeler is quite obviously not the dark art that those who's actual job it is to make tools appear would have us believe. And while Rob thought that he couldn't forsake Layout and release nothing while they worked on Core, maybe for too many here forsaking anything to do with Modeler to work on the architecture is just as bad.

    And yes, I probably have overreacted to the phrase because it's been used in the past when it was quite obviously bull****.

    But as you say, nothing we can do (aside from look to an alternative) we just gotta wait.
    Sentenced to 310 years for crimes against modelling and rendering.

  4. #139
    "OH NO!", Joseph Joestar ncr100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lino.grandi View Post
    We've done what we could about Modeler. But we're fully aware of the fact modeling side needs a lot of attention.
    The Wink of A Thousand Words™

    Current and ongoing improvements are welcome, while keeping it simple is an art!
    -Nick
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  5. #140
    Pleased to meet you. Oedo 808's Avatar
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    If they keep it any more simple, they'll have to rename it to LightWave: Forrest Gump Edition.
    Sentenced to 310 years for crimes against modelling and rendering.

  6. #141
    As long as it runs fast and gets the hob done, thats fine
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  7. #142
    Pleased to meet you. Oedo 808's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwanmtr View Post
    As long as it runs fast and gets the hob done, thats fine
    I'm sure it'll run fast. I'm not so sure about keeping the kitchen clean.
    Sentenced to 310 years for crimes against modelling and rendering.

  8. #143
    Registered User hazmat777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedo 808 View Post
    If they keep it any more simple, they'll have to rename it to LightWave: Forrest Gump Edition.
    shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it.

    If LW3DG can get all that in Modeler, it will be a miracle.
    "I don't have it... you want half my omelette?"

  9. #144
    Pleased to meet you. Oedo 808's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hazmat777 View Post
    If LW3DG can get all that in Modeler, it will be a miracle.
    That sentence... it's such bait! But I shall resist, I have vented now and only blew a gasket because of the suggestion that they had done what they could. Well, last comment, if that is true then we're completely ****ed, but I'll say no moar.

    Except to say that a shrimp-kabobs.p could possibly placate me.
    Sentenced to 310 years for crimes against modelling and rendering.

  10. #145
    Registered User hazmat777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedo 808 View Post
    That sentence... it's such bait! But I shall resist, I have vented now and only blew a gasket because of the suggestion that they had done what they could. Well, last comment, if that is true then we're completely ****ed, but I'll say no moar.

    Except to say that a shrimp-kabobs.p could possibly placate me.
    Just kidding around and you are right, though I'd prefer the pineapple-shrimp.p myself.
    "I don't have it... you want half my omelette?"

  11. #146
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oedo 808 View Post
    That sentence... it's such bait! But I shall resist, I have vented now and only blew a gasket because of the suggestion that they had done what they could. Well, last comment, if that is true then we're completely ****ed, but I'll say no moar.
    Might be interesting to see how many people rely fully on lightwave modeler these days when they need some modeling done.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  12. #147
    I do all my modeling in Lightwave Modeler. I know how to make it do what I need. Just because it's a little behind and doesnt handle millions of polys like zbrush doesn't mean its a bad application.

    Zbrush is the only other app i use for some things, though generally I make the base model in modeler.

    That being said, I hope that the LW3DG do give Modeler the attention it deserves and needs. Because there are things I'd like to see and tool fixes
    Rob Depew
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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmodave View Post
    Not convinced they will ever really work on modeller so definitely not upgrading, and anyway had enough bugs/workarounds in LW10 and not interested in having to cope with more.

    Dave.
    Yes, 10 was buggy for me, too, but version 11.6 was not. 2015 looks to be a smooth transition from 11.6 so if you do upgrade you probably won't notice bugs.

  14. #149
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Let's just say that if the New Feature set doesn't move you, by all means hold off, but knowing you'll lose the slight advantage of HC membership.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
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  15. #150
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Lightwave 10 had a lot of improvements over 9.6 but, yeah, it could be pretty buggy. I was a good step forward though.

    Everything got so much better throughout 11's three year cycle though, which I felt was the best Lightwave ever. The initial release of 2015 has already addressed and improved long standing workflow issues, and I'm certain 2015 will continue to do so in future sp's.

    Re: Lightwave Modeler. It's still my primary modeling app but I don't rely on it 100%. Sometimes I use 3D Coat or ZBrush, and occasionally I tap into Modo. Plus, I have maybe a half dozen smaller programs I use to support these tools. TBH, I don't think I can rely 100% on any of these programs but who says I have to?

    G.

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