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Thread: Camera Selector, very unstable with changing resolutions.

  1. #1
    Polygon Pirate quilmequick's Avatar
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    Camera Selector, very unstable with changing resolutions.

    Hello all,

    We have been using camera selector (both versions CS and UCS) at work for years and most of the time it works well but with scenes where the camera resolution changes between camera, it is almost guaranteed to crash on render, with no work around.

    We use a lot of shift and advanced cameras, sometimes 100s, and it seems to be that the resolution switching or frame size makes LW crash.

    We have had the issue on and off since v9 and are now running v11.6x with no improvement. It doesn't always crash with the the first resolution change but will crash at a random later frame with a res change. It's unpredictable which frame it will crash on before the render, but it will always crash again on the same frame, when re-rendered.

    There are a few solutions that can be used to switch the cameras automatically but none of them (that I know of) allow for resolution changes.

    Has anyone else had these issues and does anyone have a quick to set up workaround or fix?

    Thanks

    Quil

  2. #2
    Robert Ireland bobakabob's Avatar
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    Have you reported this to LW3DG as a bug in your Newtek account? I'm curious as to why you would want to change camera resolution in this way? The software shouldn't crash of course, but it does seem a very unusual step which the bug fixers may have missed as few users would have discovered it. Hope you get this resolved soon.
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  3. #3
    This is a known bug from many years. Another problem is when camera have different zoom factor and the same resolution that previous camera - zoom factor will be locked to the first camera.
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  4. #4
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    LW renderer probably allocates image buffer using initial camera resolution from start frame. And then doesn't allocate new one.
    Try using as the biggest camera resolution in that frame to see whether it helps.

    BTW, I have made Camera Selector Baker plugin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NbzvJUye9A
    See video tutorial and read description.
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  5. #5
    Polygon Pirate quilmequick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobakabob View Post
    Have you reported this to LW3DG as a bug in your Newtek account? I'm curious as to why you would want to change camera resolution in this way? The software shouldn't crash of course, but it does seem a very unusual step which the bug fixers may have missed as few users would have discovered it. Hope you get this resolved soon.
    Hi bobakabob

    We do a lot of planning views in London, where there is a mixture of panoramic camera matches, which all end up different resolutions when stitched. There are also a mixture of landscape and portrait shift matches and standard lens matches with the panoramas. We also use older plates that were shot on 5dmkii and newer ones that are shot on the 5mkiii. Also mixtures of cameras that are subcontracted out at random resolutions. Some of our plates/jobs are 5+ years old but still in use with newer plates. We have over 5000 cameras that we have matched in London alone. So as you can imagine over the years, it would be impossible to keep them all the same resolution.

    Thanks.

  6. #6
    Polygon Pirate quilmequick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanchon View Post
    This is a known bug from many years. Another problem is when camera have different zoom factor and the same resolution that previous camera - zoom factor will be locked to the first camera.
    Yeah, we've always suffered with it, but as we are trying to automate more and more, it is becoming more of a gripe in our, otherwise smooth workflow.

  7. #7
    Polygon Pirate quilmequick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    LW renderer probably allocates image buffer using initial camera resolution from start frame. And then doesn't allocate new one.
    Try using as the biggest camera resolution in that frame to see whether it helps.

    BTW, I have made Camera Selector Baker plugin
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NbzvJUye9A


    See video tutorial and read description.
    Hi Sensei,

    Yeah we found your script, and I've put it forward to our management, so we'll see what happens. I mentioned your work around in my bug report, so hopefully your on the right track, it sounds very plausible. I will test your workaround next week and let you know if it works.

    Thanks for your help.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilmequick View Post
    I will test your workaround next week and let you know if it works.
    I tried making 640x480 camera first, second in sequence 1920x1080, instant crash.
    Reversed them, the same crash.
    It works only when they have the same width and height.

    So baking them is the only way to be able to render, I can see..
    But this way, you will have them all the same size. You know.
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  9. #9
    LightWave Engineer Jarno's Avatar
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    Switching resolution during an animation is not supported. I can't even imagine how that would have to be handled when, for example, rendering to an AVI. Although people have managed to find ways around it, it has never been the intention for LightWave to support camera switching.

    ---JvdL---

  10. #10
    If we could have render globals per camera that would address this.
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  11. #11
    yes please fix this script, it is vital for us archviz people if we render multiple stills form a scene. using render-q for this purpose has always been much less straightforward.

    to make ALL camera parameters animatable from within layout could help as well. but then still some third party cameras maybe would not be usable in this situation and there would be no way to mix different camera types.
    Last edited by 3dworks; 12-06-2014 at 03:19 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ernpchan View Post
    If we could have render globals per camera that would address this.
    That has nothing to do with that..
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  13. #13
    Polygon Pirate quilmequick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    Switching resolution during an animation is not supported. I can't even imagine how that would have to be handled when, for example, rendering to an AVI. Although people have managed to find ways around it, it has never been the intention for LightWave to support camera switching.

    ---JvdL---
    I suppose thinking about it in term of animation instead of single frames being outputted it makes sense that it may not work. It's a real shame that it doesn't work because it is actually a really really powerful tool that no other software offers with such ease of set up.

    From a layman's perspective it doesn't actually sound like it would be that hard to implement. You would need a warning if writing to a video format. Or a dialogue that warns of resolution changes within the sequence.

    It really is a useful tool that makes LW invaluable in Arch Viz and Planning analysis.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by quilmequick View Post
    I suppose thinking about it in term of animation instead of single frames being outputted it makes sense that it may not work. It's a real shame that it doesn't work because it is actually a really really powerful tool that no other software offers with such ease of set up.

    From a layman's perspective it doesn't actually sound like it would be that hard to implement. You would need a warning if writing to a video format. Or a dialogue that warns of resolution changes within the sequence.

    It really is a useful tool that makes LW invaluable in Arch Viz and Planning analysis.
    The thing is that frame buffer is allocated once, while starting rendering.
    Then previously allocated frame buffer is just reused.
    Another thing is that just too many things depends on resolution.
    Like for instance GI cache (min-max spacing is in pixels).

    The only sensible solution I proposed in Private Message to you.
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  15. #15
    I'm running into this issue right now on a large arch-viz project that is due soon where I have to render 10 stills at various resolutions and zooms. I have done scenes like this in Modo before with no problems since you can keyframe the camera resolution in Modo as well as many other settings that you can't in Lightwave so Modo has no need for a hack type of plugin like "Camera Selector" for switching between cameras. It would be nice if these camera settings could be key framed in Lightwave.
    Last edited by Nicolas Jordan; 01-08-2015 at 10:07 PM.
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