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Thread: Occlusion shader input question

  1. #1

    Occlusion shader input question

    I would normally do an occlusion pass separately and comp it into the final image. But I want to avoid doing that in this instance. I have a delta material with various things going into it to give it textures and bumps, does anyone know which input I would plug the occlusion shader into, also, which is the preferred occlusion shader.

    This is a newbie type question and I feel stupid asking it but I need some help with it (I'm attempting to keep this node structure as simple as possible).

  2. #2
    Registered User Slartibartfast's Avatar
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    If using 3rd party nodes is ok, then connect "Material booster" by db&w after the delta and feed occlusion into "diffuse boost".

  3. #3
    Super Member XswampyX's Avatar
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    Don't use the Lightwave inbuilt occlusion shader.... it's broken. Try and get any value apart from 0 or 1 from it.

    Use the DP-Kit one, in DPK per node mode, it's great!


  4. #4
    I much prefer the dp occlusion node in 'falloff' mode, it gives better results than the native. Sadly I stopped mixing nodes in to shaders a while back, due to the complexity of maintaining hundreds of materials. Technically you should mix occlusion to diff and ref, which material booster can do (love that plugin, I asked for it :-)). For the most part I just use shadermeister and make a fast seperate pass instead.

  5. #5
    TrueArt Support
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    Mine v11.6.1 is fine...

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  6. #6
    Hmm, fall-off mode, I chose ranged and already applied it to a number of surfaces. Anyway, I used material booster as suggested and DP's occlusion node and that seems a nice and easy way to mix in occlusion without destroying any of the other inputs.

    I might go back to shadermeister in the end, I never properly tested it with this scene before I started on this approach of having occlusion in the render. Trying to cut down on passes but probably a stupid idea.

  7. #7
    ManFrog johnliebler's Avatar
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    There's also SG ambient occlusion node, which is my favorite at the moment.

  8. #8
    Sg occlusion is also my favourite. Alas it doesn't work with unified sampling in lw 11+.

    I'll show you my shadermeister workflow tomorrow if I get the chance.

  9. #9
    I've gone back to using the native occlusion ll shader because it is the only one that seems to respect normal maps (normal maps have to be plugged into the main surface input and not the material's normal input for them to show up).

  10. #10
    ManFrog johnliebler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobian View Post
    Sg occlusion is also my favourite. Alas it doesn't work with unified sampling in lw 11+.

    I'll show you my shadermeister workflow tomorrow if I get the chance.

    Hi Tobian, can you clarify what you mean by SG occlusion not working with 11+ ? I'm still using it on almost everything (in 11+), and it seems to be working. Am I missing something?

    Cheers!

    John

  11. #11
    It doesn't work with adaptive sampling. Keep your aa low, and as off, then as high... look the same, but you wasted a lot of samples :-)

  12. #12
    ManFrog johnliebler's Avatar
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    Thanks Tobian, that makes sense. I always use some aa, and put the occlusion in a separate buffer, so I can use noise reduction on it if needed, but I will have to do some experiments with the alternative occlusion nodes. Cheers!

  13. #13
    Here are the three types of occlusion shaders including Denis Pontonnier's. And the first image shows the normal maps showing up.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think if you don't care about the normal map's contribution, then DP's is the nicest. Both his and Occlusion ll rendered the same speed, SG Amb Occlusion took about 4 times longer.

  14. #14
    dj, have you tried plugging the normal map into the dp occlusion node, as it has an input? and yes that's why I use DP on falloff, as it's much nicer Glass is an issue, which is why I have a custom work-flow using shadermeister, which handles glass, for this reason.

    Hmm sg used to be fast, I suspect it's just the lack of unified sampling, because it will be taking 16 samples per sample point (it's default) instead of whatever value you input in the global samples (which by default is 1) With finetuning of the settings, you could probably get it's timing similar if not faster, but you couldn't use adaptive sampling, as it would be a waste, as I said. Unified sampling made all the materials and shaders lose their individual 'samples' input, but old shaders which haven't been modified won't work with it in mind, and still have it. There's still a benefit in some cases (hence why DP gives the option insome of his lights / shaders) as LWG never bothered to put in a multiplier, which would allow for more finetuning!

  15. #15
    Yeah I did notice the normal map input on DP's shader, but if you're using it globally on all surfaces through shadermeister then how can you use it? If you are setting up each surface separately then that's a different situation, actually that's kind of what I was trying to do when I started this thread, but I changed my mind. In fact, I might be using Octane in the end on this project (not mine, some one else's machine).

    I'd like to see your Shadermeister workflow some time.

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