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Thread: LightWave vs [run what ya brung]

  1. #1
    Super Member spherical's Avatar
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    LightWave vs [run what ya brung]

    OK, seeing as how the knee jerk hammer came down because someone complained, and the thread was locked on a whim, I'll start a new thread. What really gets me as there is pretty much a thin skin when it comes to comparing applications. How the #[email protected]% are we supposed to know what is what, without having tons of $$$ to go out and buy every darn 3D application there is? Yeah, this is NT's forum. I get that. Give us a little credit for being loyal, while examining what else is out there and using that information to offer direction on where we would like to see LightWave go. Borders on rude. You want to sanction one post? Fine. Lock the whole thread and shut all of us down? Not cool.

    What I was going to ask in the now (inappropriately, IMO) locked thread is:

    What is the total cost to obtain the same or near functionality between LightWave and [insert other 3D application here]?

    Yes, this is a complex question. In order to provide any sort of pertinent comparison, you'd have to first pick a goal: CA, ArchViz, VFX and then add in all of the plugins (and possible external standalones needed in order to make the plugins work if necessary) and add up the total cost.

    The question is: How far do you have to go in other applications in order to replicate what we have in LightWave and its readily available plugins; commercial or otherwise?

    This, to me, is valuable information that LW3DG could use to their benefit and I'll bet that not a lot of research has gone into doing this.
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    Well, I guess that I can answer for my own 3D use. I am not sure what I will do with Lightwave. But since I couldn't afford Autodesk products [and the Australia tax of 3000 bucks more, the upgrades down the track for them to boot, and the possibility of them going creative cloud etc etc] I decided a few months ago to make "Lightwave on Steroids".

    So I bought zbrush [with Goz!] for better painting and messiah studio for better rigging/animation. Thus I consider that in combination I have something that is a lot closer in functionality to Maya than I would have in Lightwave alone. I guess that you could also say to some degree that I got messiah studio and marmoset toolbag to have other rendering options [ not necessarily better or worse than the LW renderer, just different] .

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    Super Member spherical's Avatar
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    Thanks! We're in somewhat similar situations w/regard to ZBrush and Messiah. Both of these interact well with LightWave. This is what I'm attempting to learn: How much in the center of the 3D Universe is LightWave?
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by spherical View Post
    How the #[email protected]% are we supposed to know what is what, without having tons of $$$ to go out and buy every darn 3D application there is?
    You should try the demo versions. Almost all applications offer free demos.

    There are other factors. For example, for a student, the cost of Lightwave ownership is around $675, since the <$200 educational version can be upgraded to commercial just purchasing a normal upgrade of any future version.

    Quote Originally Posted by spherical View Post
    Give us a little credit for being loyal
    I don't think you can do that on a public forum, since your competitors can come and post at any time.

  5. #5
    Carbon fibre dongleŽ 50one's Avatar
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    Hola Amigos,

    What's the point of this thread? Lot's of similar ones were closed in the past, no one knows if the devs will pay attention to them, but sure the mods will pay if mention certain 3D apps from the competitors.

    S

  6. #6
    This is not a public forum. It is private. And you don't have the right to say anything or post anything.

    A free flowing exchange of ideas is good for artists. But this is not an artist's only forum. If you want that. Use one of the more general forums at CGTalk. This is a LightWave artist's forum - funded by mind you - by NewTek.

    As to your questions in particular this is probably the worst way to find out.

    In general I ignore what people tell me at online forums regarding what choices to make as an artist regarding software. It does not take long to figure out that people are biased not only to their own interests and limited education on the matter, but also their particular use and even other motives that have nothing to do with, does a software do the trick or not.

    I also have my bias but I usually also tell people to look into it for themselves. Because that is how I make decisions.

    Digital Tutors is a great way to check out a lot of software before you even do a trial. Then look into ED versions, and so on.

    It takes a long time and a lot of testing. There is no shortcut.

  7. #7
    How Old? Really? Aww Heck colkai's Avatar
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    This is a LW forum so the defensive tactics are bound to come into play, yes, there is a thin skin, but you find that I think with any application.
    The "what LW lacks" has been debated over and over for years and at the end of the day, whoever is in charge at Newtek / LW group at the time will do what they will do. The last five years have demonstrated that perfectly, it's fair to say that by now, anyone remotely passing these forums, let alone actually working for the company / branch / subsidiary, knows what areas are felt lacking in LW, how can you not?

    When all is said and done, they will add features, change direction and pay lip service as they see fit, it's their product and they will listen to who they choose to listen to. Your choice as a consumer is whether to buy the product, upgrade it, or use a competitors product to boost the flaws where you find them. Sometimes, you just have to buckle down and learn a new product before you can decide if you want it, at least with the PLe versions out there, that is not difficult.

    Do a search of this and the old forums, I think you'd be amazed just how long this particular discussion topic has been going on, in many cases, with zero progress in the end, which tends to suggest, as others have said, that they are rather redundant.

    EDIT: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....s-feature-list

    Ahem, 'Nuff said, bear in mind that is from the NEW forums, the topic is much much older than that though.
    Last edited by colkai; 12-13-2013 at 04:08 AM.
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  8. #8
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spherical View Post
    OK, seeing as how the knee jerk hammer came down because someone complained, and the thread was locked on a whim,

    it wasn't locked on a whim I can assure of this ...matts not the kinda guy to shut threads down without proper reasoning ..."not that he cant speak for himself " and there has been plenty of LW threads closed on the modo boards however I digress there seems to be this whole new generation of LW vs [insert application here], perhaps because it's Christmas time people are twiddling there thumbs in between renders but it's like comparing apples and oranges , this thread in itself is a loaded question, no disrespect but it tethers on the edge of playing with fire.
    someone is going to get burnt.

    to answer your question "How far do you have to go in other applications in order to replicate what we have in LightWave and its readily available plugins; commercial or otherwise?"

    not very ... I have LWave loaded and already started modelling before MAX has even booted up

    again apples and oranges.

    Modo is a great app , brilliant community very supportive and there artists can churn out quality renders equally the same as LW artists can...

    it really is the monkey behind the keyboard.

    you also need to keep in mind a lot of the LW team are artists first and can use most apps and own most apps , so they are fully aware of what is missing in regards to LightWave.
    Last edited by OnlineRender; 12-13-2013 at 05:45 AM.

  9. #9
    How Old? Really? Aww Heck colkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    you also need to keep in mind a lot of the LW team are artists first and can use most apps and own most apps , so they are fully aware of what is missing in regards to LightWave.
    It is not a case of being aware, we know they have been aware for a long long time. Looking back, I was often on the defensive for LW over features coming, optimistically assuming knowing a problem exists meant steps would be taken to address it. These days, I find I judge more by what is produced and looking back, I find my posts rather naive and fanboyish. Experience they say is what you get when you don't get what you want, I am far too experienced for my own liking.
    Too old to die young.

  10. #10
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Here's a tangential question: do/can devs charge for Blender plugins (googling did not clear that up for me)???

    My question is relating to: if there's no commercial plugins for free Blender, there's no way to compare costs.

    OTOH, one could certainly compare capabilities. For instance, is there ANY way to get LWCAD-type functionality in Blender?
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  11. #11
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    you can get commercial plugins and some of the blender full time staff are on a wage

    Quote Originally Posted by colkai View Post
    It is not a case of being aware, we know they have been aware for a long long time. Looking back, I was often on the defensive for LW over features coming, optimistically assuming knowing a problem exists meant steps would be taken to address it. These days, I find I judge more by what is produced and looking back, I find my posts rather naive and fanboyish. Experience they say is what you get when you don't get what you want, I am far too experienced for my own liking.
    Colkai not for one second am I defending some of NT's actions however I think it would be ignorant not to give credit where it's due... LW11 has been a huge step forward since 9 " I DONT COUNT 10" in terms of marketing ,documentation and the actual physical product bugs & all even just dropping the dongle was a big step in the right direction , it's going to be slow and things will not change over night ,perhaps it is the fanboy in myself but I believe LW3DG is on the right road , don't get me wrong sometimes you get the odd WTF moment with them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    there has been plenty of LW threads closed on the modo boards
    What!
    The only threads I'm aware of ever having been closed on the modo boards have either been spam or a couple of threads where posters were verbally abusive to one another (and even that is very, very rare). I don't believe any thread has ever been closed because of criticism of modo or luxology or as a result of praising other software packages. We criticize the software, the company, features we feel are inadequate or lacking (snapping comes up for a flailing on a regular basis). We talk up other software packages (I can't imagine how many customers Zbrush has gotten as a result of the adulation that modo users feel towards that application - and it's regularly touted as the 'solution' to the inadequacy of modo's sculpting tools). And eveyone lives happily ever after.

    Adage: the solution to the problems of free speech is always more free speech, not less.

  13. #13
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    Sciamachy

    (n.) a battle against imaginary enemies:
    fighting your shadow

    you may be correct in regards to them being closed for legit reasons as highlighted in original post the modo community is very supportive but by that measurement NT Forums are the exact same...

    trust me I have pushed them a fair bit over the years and you should hear what gets said in private skype ... RAGEQUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    like I said I this thread is loaded
    Last edited by OnlineRender; 12-13-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    like I said I this thread is loaded
    This. I don't really care that people talk about other software here (even though in many cases it is against forum policy)... in fact in some cases it is really beneficial to do so. Blender, for instance, adds a *TON* of value to Lightwave despite the fact that technically speaking it is a "competing" software package, and it provides mac users with a way to have better UV tools without investing in additional software while still taking advantage of Lightwave's strengths... no one will argue that LW needs better UV tools native of course. This is an example of healthy discussion that involves other software packages.

    What isn't healthy discussion, are threads that leave Lightwave as an afterthought and instead only serve as vehicles of advertisement for competing software packages (whether intentional or not). This isn't about the LW dev crew being thin-skinned, this is about keeping the forum on-topic; it is bad enough seeing 6+ threads on the LIGHTWAVE forums mostly about MODO... regardless of the justification people try to put behind that.

    EDIT: Also, to be clear, this isn't just a problem with the Lightwave forums... CGTalk has had to crack down on this stuff as well in their lightwave forum section... though, at this point most of the users who posted in the Lightwave section had left.
    Last edited by Ryan Roye; 12-13-2013 at 12:27 PM.
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  15. #15
    Super Member spherical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    This is a LightWave artist's forum - funded by mind you - by NewTek.
    Actually, it's "funded" by us. Customers fund everything.
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