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Thread: Alternatives to FiberFX for 11.5 fur?

  1. #1
    Spinny Spinland's Avatar
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    Alternatives to FiberFX for 11.5 fur?

    As per my post in general support, it appears as though FFX is not going to be viable for what I'm trying to do, and I don't know how long it will be before it's ever fixed. In the meantime, I'm looking to alternatives.

    About the only other game in town seems to be Sasquatch? I'm willing to spring for a license but I have misgivings about the future of Worley Labs, and whether it would even work with 11.5. Anyone have some insight into these issues?

    Many thanks in advance!
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  2. #2
    Well concerning Sasquatch... Personally I find it much more user friendly, I think it renders faster and gives better results in general. However, it has some limitations that aren't nice. It uses shadow maps for shadows/shading and does not have a volumetric or real geometry option, its purely post process which means it will not show in reflections. To be fair to NT, I haven't messed around with FiberFX in 11.5 so I don't know if things are much improved, from the brief info I saw on it, the improvements seem to be mainly cosmetic in terms of the properties panel. Unfortunately, Sas and FiberFx are the only two hair solutions that I am aware of for LightWave at present time.

  3. #3
    Spinny Spinland's Avatar
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    Thanks for the honest appraisal. Will Sas even run on a Mac in 11.5, do you know? From what I could find in search it seems I'd have to go back to using the dongle but I'm okay with that. I have one possible gig lining up where I need the fur to work without the headaches FFX is giving me, and Sas would pay for itself right off the bat, but only if I can actually use it.

    Thanks again!
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  4. #4
    I don't know, I haven't used Sas in some time and I don't use a mac so I can't say whether Sas will work with 11.5. I emailed Steve Worley about a year ago and asked him if they were still going to develop plug-ins at all for LightWave and also asked about the possibility for a follow up to Sasquatch. He seemed positive that they would continue developing plug-ins for Lightwave but from what I remember, he didn't seem too positive about taking Sasquatch any further. I would keep that in mind if you're really looking at buying Sas. And we haven't heard really much of anyhting from them in the last few years. I would be hesitant to buy anything from them until I saw some efidence that they were going to continue to develop or support their plug-ins.

  5. #5
    Spinny Spinland's Avatar
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    Thanks. On the surface that's very good advice, but leaves me kind of stuck with no solution for what I'm trying to accomplish. Until they iron out all the problems with FFX (and it's not just a Mac thing with me, I'm getting the same crashes and lockups in my Windows 7/64 virtual machine) it seems there's no viable alternative.

    Sigh.
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    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Sasquatch works fine under 11.5, at least on Windows. It does require a dongle for it's licensing, however.

    Supposedly there was a minor update coming for Sasquatch so it would work without a dongle... But I've seen nothing since the mention of that.
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  7. #7
    Spinny Spinland's Avatar
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    Thanks, Kryslin. I've sent an inquiry to the sales email address at worley.com asking them whether it'd work. Hopefully there's still someone there to answer--or even to supply the needed serial number for a possible purchase.

    I have misgivings, but if it at least worked for basic fur over geometry that's being deformed by morphs then I'd have more than I do now (since FFX does not).
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  8. #8
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    Sasquatch won't work on current Mac LW versions. All of Worley's plugins have completely blank user interfaces since LW 9.6.1 on Mac. There's no workaround. If you have LW 9.6 available, you can set up elements of the scene in there and then pull them forward via Load-From-Scene, but that's not always doable and you will also have to use 32-bit mode for LW 9.6.1+ to avoid losing the plugin information. Basically, there are various workflow and infrastructure gotches if you go down that path.
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  9. #9
    Spinny Spinland's Avatar
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    Thanks for the definitive response, Phil. Not what I wanted to hear, but at least I know.

    So as it stands there's no way to use fur on morphed geometry in LW, at least for the Mac. I still maintain this is also a Windows problem, but that's hardly relevant to the main issue. Here's hoping NT fixes this FiberFX bug, and sooner rather than later.
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  10. #10
    Oh, the fur doesn't followed morphed geometry in FiberFx? I wasn't aware of that. Are you saying that's just a mac issue or a LW issue?

  11. #11
    Spinny Spinland's Avatar
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    Well, for me it's crashing and/or hanging Layout when I apply it to a model with morphs. For now I seem to have found a workaround where I just use 11.0.3 where FFX and morphs seem to be playing fine together.

    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....ith-endomorphs
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  12. #12
    Can you bake .mdd and apply ffx to it?
    If its a morph issue, it should work.

  13. #13
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinland View Post
    Thanks for the honest appraisal. Will Sas even run on a Mac in 11.5, do you know? From what I could find in search it seems I'd have to go back to using the dongle but I'm okay with that. I have one possible gig lining up where I need the fur to work without the headaches FFX is giving me, and Sas would pay for itself right off the bat, but only if I can actually use it.

    Thanks again!
    Nope, Sas was never updated for Cocoa UI requirements, and thus won't run in MacLW beyond 9.6. Unfortunately, there's not much indication that situation will change any time soon either. Which is a huge shame, as limitations aside, I still find the results it produces significantly more realistic than anything I've ever been able to get out of FFX, esp. factoring in amount of effort required. YMMV, of course.
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  14. #14
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    Sasquatch won't work on current Mac LW versions. All of Worley's plugins have completely blank user interfaces since LW 9.6.1 on Mac. There's no workaround.
    Worley used custom UIs based on the LW API HostDisplayInfo(). The change to Cocoa (as of 9.6.1) also meant anyone using HostDisplayInfo() had to basically rework their custom UI code from scratch -- that rework hasn't happened (yet?) for the Worley LW plugins on Mac.
    John W.
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  15. #15
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VermilionCat View Post
    Can you bake .mdd and apply ffx to it?
    If its a morph issue, it should work.
    There are a _lot_ of morph uses where the cost of baking (loss of further edit/anim ability, as well as baking time) isn't really practical, unfortunately.
    John W.
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