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Thread: Environments

  1. #1
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    Environments

    Hi Guys,

    I'm just about all SkyTracered out over here. Too many bugs not enough bang for the trouble. Any recommendations for an environmental plugin? I'm aware of Vue but not too many others that are compatible with LightWave. What are you guys using to produce these insanely realistic environments?

    Cheerio
    Richard
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  3. #3
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Hebert View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I'm just about all SkyTracered out over here. Too many bugs not enough bang for the trouble. Any recommendations for an environmental plugin? I'm aware of Vue but not too many others that are compatible with LightWave. What are you guys using to produce these insanely realistic environments?

    Cheerio
    Richard
    Insanely realistic environments? that donīt come easy in lightwave really, most people probably use images mapped on textured environment or domes.

    if you are using skytracer and want clouds in there..depending on cloudīs though, but you would need textured shadows to get good depth in there, and that is slower than most other things Ivé seen, besides ..skytracer isnīt truly fully volumetric.

    Ozone can get the most realistic ones, but that depends on what cloud layer you choose or preset, but Ozone has some serious limits in tweaking clouds and you canīt use the editor and tweak and have VPR open at the same time.

    Ogo Taiki is quite nice too, but has a more daunting UI, and hard to figure quality settings, but otherwise you can create pretty much anything with it, it isnīt developed anymore though it seems, and itīs only for 32 bit machines.

    ogo taiki and ozone is the only ones with a true volumetric engine and air properties to follow...You can use hypervoxels or Turbulencefd
    for clouds, but you will miss the general overall atmospherics.

    I donīt see anything else out there apart from these really.
    NatureFX had a tool for it ages ago, but donīt think that works anymore or that you can get hold of it.

    Michael

  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFF View Post

    Sunsky is merely nice sunlight and some sky gradient procedural which looks good, but not a volumetric atmosphere engine, and it completly lacks clouds.

    Michael

  5. #5
    Ogo Taiki.

    It seems to be a lot faster nowadays within LW.

  6. #6
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnCommonGrafx View Post
    Ogo Taiki.

    It seems to be a lot faster nowadays within LW.
    Not quite sure about that for Lightwave final renders, VPR feedback is one thing...but final renders?

    unfortunatly fog layers required for godrays in ogo taiki seems way slower than having godrays in ozone.

    a 10-20 speedup in ogoīs volumetri engine, UI overhaul ...especially better overview of layers you currently work on, and 64 bit version and a better way to set up fog, air properties, then it would be great.

    I have mentioned proīs and conīs between ogo taiki and ozone in many other threads.
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....ighlight=ozone

    Michael

  7. #7
    How about Smart IBL? The plugin works great in LightWave and there are a number of nice free environments in the sIBL archive.

    http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html
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  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I just posted a feedback list to e-on, unfortunatly I am not eligable to post on forums.

    point 1-5 is the most important to fix.


    "The issues Im having with ozone is...

    1. it is essential to be able to tweak cloud density functions, this can be done in vue, but not in ozone since there is no acess to those noise functions, neither rotation or position of the same.

    2. ozone is missing the cloud density detail tab which is present in vue itself, therefore lack of control.

    3. Finally thereīs a resizable preview window, thatīs better than before, but it feels contra productive trying to tweak the atmosphere without getting feedback on how it affects the rest of the scene, vue standalone can do this, but we can not do this with VPR open in Lightwave and edit at the same time which is sadly not good enough, If we take a look at the volumetric plugin ogo taiki for lightwave, that is fully doable.

    4. planet point of view, this can be done in vue, but you can not get that within ozone, again if we take a look at the volumetric plugin ogo taiki, you can acheive that with ogo taiki.

    5. godray doesnīt seem to affect and cast shadow rays from and on lightwave objects.

    6. spectral (2)3 cloud layers are extremly slow compared to spectral 1 layers, which speed was acceptable, this is more the same in vue itself.

    7. very shortly after installement of ozone 6, I couldnt get Lightwave to work and start up properly either, thus I got somewhat scared to install it again.

    8. as mentioned by Markus Groeteke on ozone forum, moving camera or things in lightwave seems to have gone wrong, it is extremly slow and the same issue was not in ozone 5.

    Unfortunatly thereīs so many issues with ozone and lightwave, that I have given advice to people to look in to ogo taiki which has some benifits compared to ozone, such as working with VPR while editing, working with native lightwave procedurals for cloud density which are a little better than ozoneīs function noises that are based on older noise functions not designed for cloud density.
    ogo taiki can use point clusters or particles for clouds, ogo taiki has air refraction for heat shimmer.

    Not expecting ozone to have all that, but some of the points mentioned needs to be adressed if checking the point issue order."

  9. #9
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    How about Smart IBL? The plugin works great in LightWave and there are a number of nice free environments in the sIBL archive.

    http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/index.html
    how do you animate the clouds in sIBL and wheres fog and haze

    Serious rework of skytracer or ogo taiki implementation is about time.

    Being obnoxious today.

  10. #10
    You don't. But in many situations you don't need that. Richard only said he wanted realistic environments. Not what he was doing with them.
    ~~Phil Nolan
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  11. #11
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philbert View Post
    You don't. But in many situations you don't need that. Richard only said he wanted realistic environments. Not what he was doing with them.
    Yah...thatīs the route, generally if one can get away with image backdrops ..thatīs the way to go and avoiding long rendertimes such as generated sky atmospherics is demanding.

    Seeing though that he mentions skytracer and vue, it could be suspected that he might need/want a truly volumetric engine with full control of lighting that can be set anyware and clouds in any shape and anywhere needed.

    which method to use is defined by type of shot of course.

    Extremly fun to be a god over your environments though, and being able to create it with full artistic freedom only limited by your imagination and skills on how to use it.

    sIBL with animated cloud time lapse would be nice, and tools to match the environment sun location with a Lightwave physical sunlight that also can be volumetric would be great to have.

    Ogo taiki site...
    http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~pq1a-ogs/taiki_e.html

    Michael

  12. #12
    Plays with fire sadkkf's Avatar
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    Terragen also creates some very realistic skies and terrain.

    http://www.planetside.co.uk/
    So much water, so few sharks.

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  13. #13
    If I recall correctly, Jen Hachigian said they used Terragen for environments in Terra Nova.
    ~~Phil Nolan
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  14. #14
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    Are you guys familiar with Terragen bugs and Lightwave? BTW, while I didn't go into detail about environments (my fault) I am looking for environmental effects to eventually go into the project... godrays etc. But for the moment SmartIBL will work until then. Thanks for the info. on Ozone. I was considering it but will put the brakes on it for now.

    Richard
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  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Terragen isnīt for me anyway, I donīt feel I can be creative and work with a fast workflow due to itīs very slow previewer and renderer.
    You would of course have to setup pipeline to transfer between the two programs.

    The only thing I like about Terragen is its cloud density fractals which are way better than vue, and Terragen might have slightly better light and air scattering algorithms.

    I rather go with full vue infinite implementation though before Terragen since working in vue is a breeze and faster to preview and render, even though it is slower in AA than lightwave.

    Ozone is out of the question for the moment as I mentioned, but I could think of working with Vue infinite and lightwave perhaps, thatīs another thing since you can get instant feedback over the whole scene in vue while tweaking, and you have those cloud controls, such as noise function density and cloud detail tab that is missing in ozone.

    I rather see a complete working solution within Lightwave though, the only solution that comes close is ogo taiki, I have mailed the author of ogo taiki recently and asked if he will update it or get Newtek to work on it, or if it is a lost cause?
    I donīt excpect to get any response really since he seems gone from the site, but at least I brought forward the interest.


    Michael

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