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Thread: ATI graphics cards crash modeler

  1. #1
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    ATI graphics cards crash modeler

    Hi
    I have recently upgraded my graphics with an Ati Fire GL v7700 and have had nothing but problems with it. It works fine with Layout but as soon as I use modeler 9.6 or 10 it cause crashes when I try to edit any of the models. For example if I move a point by hand it will instantly crash however if I use the numeric pane it is okay. Any modelling work using the mouse causes a crash.

    I also find that opening large models crashes modeler (larger than 1.5 million polygons) I have another PC with an ATI 4870, this also cannot open large files, I initially thought the files were corrupt, however they open fine in layout and in modeler on my Laptop with an NVDIA card.

    Both of the ATI graphics cards are running on 64bit OS and both are pretty highend cards however they do not seem to work properly with modeler. Has any one else experienced this? Should I be returning the cards or is there something in my setup that I should be changing?

  2. #2
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    I had the exact same thing with my Dell XPS Studio 1645!

    The card in it was an ATI HD Mobility 4670... and even on VERY simple models, just moving a point would crash it. I reported this to ATI, in a series of grumpy emails, and they refused to help, claiming it was Newtek's fault because Lightwave 10 was in beta.


    Aaaaanyway, since then, I've had a response from ATI now that LW10 is final, and they want me to write a full report on the issues, and how to re-produce them.

    I got my Dell 1645 replaced (due to major LCD problems and other issues) with a Dell XPS 15, and it has an Nvidia card, 435m 2gb, and LW Modeller hasn't crashed on me once!!!!


    The way round the crashing on my machine was to turn all four viewports to a different rendering method than plain wireframe. This stopped the RIDICULOUS unreliability, but it was still unstable. I also had problems in Layout if GLSL was turned OFF... I wonder if you have the same?

    If I were you, I'd find the reporting thing on ATI's website, and see how they can help. It HAS to be a driver issue, and if I'm honest, was hesitant to buy my original Dell 1645 purely down to its ATI card... I've never heard a good thing about its OpenGL support.... EVER!
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  3. #3
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    That sounds like the same problem, although I am getting it with Lightwave 9.6 as wll as 10. It is good to know that I am not the only person to have had problems with ATI graphics cards.

    Just tried your suggestion and it seems that the shaded mode was a bit more reliable than the wireframe modes but still a bit of a lottery whether it will crash or not!

    I have been down the ATI support route, after providing them with my entire life story as well as the spec of every component within a miles radius of my PC! they looked into it, they gave me a modified driver to try out but that didn't work so they kind of lost intrest at that point.

    Does this mean that Lightwave is not compatible with certain ATI graphics cards? If this is the case then surely a lot of people will be having problems.

  4. #4
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    God only knows what the issue is... I personally think it's just down to their drivers. I don't think it can be blamed on Lightwave or Newtek, but I think it's simply down to their OpenGL drivers. At work we've not used ATI for 10 years, before that we had them, but their drivers for OpenGL were APPALLING. Since then, we haven't trusted them, but thought it may have changed when I got my new laptop.... it hasn't.

    When you are in a wireframe view, and switch from full-screen to quadview, does the wireframe mess up? I used to get all sorts of spiky blue wireframes flying about everywhere!

    Oh, I did get the crashes in 9.6 too... just that I did most of my testing in LW10! Honestly, I know this probably won't help, but Nvidia are far better vendors... their drivers are as solid as a rock, even on non-quadro cards!

    I'll go through the ATI thing, and see what they say...


    I am surprised that there aren't more people having serious issues with their ATI cards... I even had problems in 3ds max 2011 and that was running directx... so, it HAS to be an ATI problem, and they need to fix it!!!
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  5. #5
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    when people asks about upgrading here in the forums, me and some others
    are warning about ATI cards and recommends nvidia cards.

    But thatīs us.

    Michael

  6. #6
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    So do I... and everyone I work with... we all do the same, and have done for years. I just took a gamble with my other laptop, and assumed that ATI had sorted it out, but alas.... still major probs all over the place! Answer is, if you can, try to steer clear!
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lardbros View Post
    I had the exact same thing with my Dell XPS Studio 1645!

    The card in it was an ATI HD Mobility 4670...

    oh dude... XPS huh? I have the exact same model with the same spec and my modeller wont stop crashing. The meshes in the 4 preview-viewports often look glitchy and bugged. In the Windows Event Viewer -> Application, i see a spam of atioglxx.dll and atio6axx.dll errors. There is nothing but red exclamations.
    Oh well I think i am too late to return/exchange my lappy.... i will just avoid ATI in my future purchases. Amen.

  8. #8
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Well, i've been onto this with ATI and I'm sure they'll help you too now that LW10 is released! Although, it did this with 9.6 too i think.

    Get to their support place and detail exactly what is wrong... they'll get back to you, and you never know, may even fix it! It makes modeller impossible to work with, and in fact Newtek should be getting onto them too...

    I've also noticed that ATI cards are shipping with the new mac pro's... uh oh!!

    Make sure you use the Dell deployed drivers and you will be better off. I went through EVERY possible iteration of drivers and the most stable was the R234359.EXE release that I got off the Dell website... but they updated it and it was crap again.

    If you want to try my copy of these drivers please shout and I'll upload them for you to try!

    All I can say is I feel very sympathetic towards you... it must just be a duff card from ATI... I know I'll never ever buy a card of theirs again. It wasn't just Lightwavethat had issues though, 3ds max was appalling too
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  9. #9
    Registered User jbaudrand's Avatar
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    nothing change since LW 7.5 with ATI cards...

    thanks for reporting this, I was planning to upgrade hardware soon and I think I must stay away from ATI...

  10. #10
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Right.... anyone who has an issue with this card, or ATI in general... please contact ATI!!!!!

    I've just had this email from them:

    "Dear Customer,

    Your service request : SR #{ticketno:[8200364186]} has been reviewed and updated.

    Response and Service Request History:

    Based on the information provided you are getting crashing with openGL when using lightwave on a laptop with a 4670 onboard card installed. If this assessment is incorrect please elaborate further as my suggestions may change.

    I apologize first for not relying sooner. Hopefully the issue is still ongoing.

    In order for us to properly diagnose the root cause of the issue we need to understand the following:

    Generally updating the the most current driver is what is recommended first. The current release is CCC 11.3.

    Are you still running LW 9.6 or is 10.0 full release now?

    Is the HD 4670 certified by Lightwave to run effectivly? Might want to check their site to see if the mobility 4670 is certified for use. If it is certified for use then it would tell you what driver that is used for the best stability possible.



    By providing answers to the questions above, we should have a better understanding what the issue might be.

    I look forward to receiving your response so we can move towards a solution to the issue.


    In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

    Best regards,

    AMD Global Customer Care"



    So, they want to know if the ATI 4670 is officially supported by Newtek! Hmmmm, do they realise that should be ATI's job shouldn't it? To say whether their card supports OpenGL properly or not!?!?!? Load of crap!

    Anyway, guys who have these issues, there is the advice, and PLEEEEASE open a support call with them, otherwise they won't ever sort it out!!!
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  11. #11
    Super Member Red_Oddity's Avatar
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    Usually that task is up to the developer of the software, not ATI/AMD.

    If your card is supported/certified by the developer you should get technical support (when used with the proper driver version as well), that's one of the reasons that for example, Autodesk's range of products only officially supports such a small amount of cards (less cards means less support you have to give with less variables when you go bug hunting.)
    I also can add that our Quadros have the same OpenGL glitches in Maya as the Geforce range.

    But, back on track, as for Newtek, i'm not sure they do driver/videocard certification at all (don't quote me on this though.)
    I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious. - Albert Einstein
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  12. #12
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    I kind of understand what you're saying, but if ATI make a crappy card, or deliver crappy drivers, it must be down to them to sort out. They cannot expect everyone to go "ah well, my card isn't supported by my app, I get no support from them"

    My old laptop was rendered absolutely useless in Lightwave, and 3ds max pretty much too, purely because of a poor ATI card or its drivers! This shouldn't be the way it works, and I've sent a pretty stinky email to management at ATI hoping that they will just acknowledge that there has always been a severe issue with their drivers. Nvidia may have some buggy issues as well, but they have NEVER caused a crash on my machine's in Lightwave. The ATI drivers were consistently causing crash after crash, even basic tasks like selecting a layer in modeller, or turning on a background layer!

    Anyway, I do understand your point, and sorry for ranting! Just feel sorry for the guys who are using the ATI cards on their Dell XPS Studio 16
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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  13. #13
    Super Member Red_Oddity's Avatar
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    But Ati/Nvidia can't be held responsible when you try to use software that uses OpenGL calls that are simply not supported on your card.

    Then again, both Ati and Nvidia are known to release absolute rubbish drivers now and again (Nvidia even managed to release one that actually fried videocards because it turned of the fan)

    Also, is it still possible in Max to switch between DirectX and OpenGL? if so, what does Max do when set tot DirectX.

    ps. don't stop ranting on my account, i know it helps, i do it on a daily basis
    I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious. - Albert Einstein
    visit my company site : House of Secrets
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  14. #14
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Yeah, tis possible to switch to OpenGL in 3ds max still... i never tried it on that machine, but the directX was shoddy anyway, and still glitched and had issues, so can only assume that openGL would have too... maybe the HD 4670 Mobility card was just crap, and will always be crap... I just know I'm much happier with my good old solid and stable Nvidia one.
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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