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Thread: Nab

  1. #46
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    I don't have a solution to this, but I think part of the problem is actually really simple.

    Once you start working for a company actually making the product, it is very easy to forget that unless the end users actually have something to use that does what they need, then ANY promises, planned feature sets, internal builds, etc. are actually pretty meaningless to end users.

    I've been an engineer myself, this happens in all companies, it's a kind of natural disconnect that happens, even from former passionate users that become employees.

    It's not malicious, or intended, or anything of the sort, but it just happens. That's why I think it is important to really take anything from someone that actually works for the company involved always with a grain of salt. It's not as simple as they are trying to sell you something, but they get caught up in the internal group think and actually believe it all with perhaps company group think rose colored glasses.

    Again, not intentionally, but it's just how the human mind works in such situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dufusyte View Post
    This is great news! Of course, the above quote is from NAB 2008, so evidently the promises ended up being unfulfilled.

    I'm happy to see the list of promises has grown. I am confident by NAB 2010 we will have in our hands an even greater set of promises.

    As for actual software delivery, we are still empty handed.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  2. #47
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpioProd View Post
    but they get caught up in the internal group think and actually believe it all with perhaps company group think rose colored glasses.
    Or maybe, since they actually know what's going on, they find speculation by those who do not pointless and often just plain wrong. Now, the standard counter argument runs along the lines of 'talk is cheap, show us' and/or 'if communication was better, we wouldn't have to be making wild-#$ed guesses' ... to which I will reply, when there is something ready to talk about and show, we will. And in my lengthy experience, I have observed many times that neither the existence or absence of facts daunts those with 'w.a.g.' syndrome.

    I said there was no special reason to be excited about NAB in an SE context, and I was right. I also said work was ongoing, and I was and am right about that too, as the few snippets of news that did trickle out demonstrate. The absence of 'chatter' does not mean nothing is happening, and insisting it does doesn't make it true. Yes, some with specific and pressing needs will decide for other alternatives. Sadly, that's always going case. Buy what you need, not the promise of what you need. Equally sadly, there are those who will take any little bit of news and spin elaborate nonsense out of it.

    People say they don't want promises. I agree. (An engineer takes time out from a long overdue vacation to post a few hints and gets trashed for it. That will do a lot to curb any mistaken impulse to share, believe me). Then, when they don't get them (promises), some act as though they had received personal assurances that long personal wishlists were certain to be fulfilled anyway - and act surprised and disappointed at this non-event predicated entirely on their own musing. It'll be ready when it's ready, and without question at that time the news will be made known. Hand-wringing and sniping don't do anything to advance matters.
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  3. #48
    VT5 USER Rich Deustachio's Avatar
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    As a customer of Newtek products for a long time, I don't have to speculate, I just base it on what I can buy now. What I have now in SE/VT5 was great for many years, but in 2009 is not groundbreaking and is close to being less useful than lower end products.

    I don't have to speculate about what efforts have been put into SE/VT5 in the last 2 or three years, I can see it. Based on that, I see Newtek putting almost all of it's resources on Tricaster and very little on SE/VT5.

    I am not downing you Steve or the engineer who posted on his vacation. Good for you guys for at least trying to forward some information. But it doesn't help when the COE Jim Plant posted in 2008 "...We also have an upgrade planned for SpeedEDIT for later this year. There's lots of cool new stuff in it, but I would say the highlights are the long-requested "sub-projects as overlays" capability, a new interpolated slow motion mode, and better QuickTime support...." and now it's past NAB 2009 and it still isn't implemented, this just proves my point of where Newtek's prioritys are.

    I just look at what my needs are and what SE/VT5 is offering and right now SE/VT5 isn't cutting it. Newtek makes business decisions on what they need to do to make more money and they should. So am I and since SE/VT5 isn't being keep up to today's standards of a professional editing system, then so must I make the same decision.

    I'm not wringing my hands, I am buying another editing system and so will many others who find SE/VT5 not acceptable.
    Dynamic Video Productions
    Mount Laurel NJ

  4. #49
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Deustachio
    As a customer of Newtek products for a long time, I don't have to speculate, I just base it on what I can buy now.
    And I wouldn't quibble with you on that, Rich. By "speculation", I refer to countless times I've seen guesswork about what is happening behind the scenes or personal impressions about what can be expected posted as though it was authoritative - sometimes even despite contrary statements by those who know for sure. Often these statements become 'enshrined in the lore', and are later assumed by the many to be valid. As this generally results in disappointment, I'll point those out at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Deustachio
    I don't have to speculate about what efforts have been put into SE/VT5 in the last 2 or three years, I can see it. Based on that, I see Newtek putting almost all of it's resources on Tricaster and very little on SE/VT5.
    Without reiterating all of this, I certainly understand that 'work done but not yet available' doesn't help you. At the same time, I'm sure you can see my point that this doesn't mean there has been no effort. No one is denying an SE upgrade is late.

    On the other point: we've considered previously the fact that the SE and TC technologies are now literally and liberally intermixed. This doesn't mean they are in lockstep, and TC - which is certainly the centerpiece now - does get a lot of love. Still, I continue to feel that we are going to see TC being the primary impetus for more powerful versions of SE, but that's just my own speculation - worth about as much as everyone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Deustachio
    But it doesn't help when the COE Jim Plant posted in 2008 ... (snip ) ... and now it's past NAB 2009 and it still isn't implemented
    Who said it's not implemented (and perhaps for quite some time)? Unseen does not equal unimplemented. But there are many other matters to address that he didn't list - some more recent (for example some of the complex file support issues that have been raised), also the matter of resolution independent transitions, and so on. None of this is trivial, and some of them are (or have been) dependent on other things being completed first.

    This all said, yes absolutely - what was expected last year is late. I've admitted this in roughly a dozen other threads over the last 4 months or so. What else can I say? "Stuff happens" - example: Suppose someone moves to another position. This guy was the primary dev person for 'feature X'. Someone has to be hired to replace him. Interviews and eventual selection follow. Then the new person has to learn SE from the ground up. Then he has to 'get his head' into the space the first guy was working in. Then he can finally continue where the other guy left off. All of this takes time, and it's just one little example.

    I'm absolutely sure our CEO made his remarks in full confidence the targets would be met - but development and business, just like other parts of life, are full of 'exigent circumstances'. None of this makes anyone dishonest, or the bad guy, disloyal or stupid. Everyone is working hard in what seems from ground zero like the most sensible order, and beating them up doesn't really do anything useful (not saying you do that, just using a bit of hyperbole). Yet to read the posts by a few armchair CEO's, they'd have done it all much better. Forgive me for being a little skeptical ... and glad that better decisions have clearly put NewTek on a profitable footing and forward looking position that bodes well for the entire product line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Deustachio
    So am I and since SE/VT5 isn't being keep up to today's standards of a professional editing system, then so must I make the same decision.
    And you don't hear anyone criticizing you for that, do you? You do what you can, and what you must, as best you can. No-one says "Rich is a disloyal customer because he has specific and urgent needs that he feels are best filled by another product".

    Suggestions, constructive criticism, bring it on. But veiled insults are a waste of pixels. Suppose we could stop right now, kick what we have in hand out the door and call it "1.8" - would that bring about a lasting cheer? Hardly. I bet a single day didn't elapse before someone said "What about x, y and z". So what's the alternative? We finish what we're doing, and release it when it's actually ready. I know which of these scenarios is more appealing to me as an end-user.
    Last edited by SBowie; 04-28-2009 at 01:52 PM.
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  5. #50

    rev ?

    NewTek must do certain things to make money in a very complicated world today. I use NT products because I can make money with them.
    I make this next statement not to be artsyfactsy but some things that NewTek has done can be done with no other software.
    I really don't care if it will play this file or that, there is always some other that will. I use suites of software to do the jobs I need to make money. NT will always be here along with Adobe CS x. I see everyone complaining here but no letters to the company, this is a user forum for users. the company takes this with a grain of salt. If you don't like a product don't buy it, buy the one you like. When I first saw the TriCaster, It was still in prototype and I saw handwriting on the wall. My full VT still works fine with more features. I also have 3 seats of SE. I have done things on deadlines that no studio would take and produced quality work. All things considered I think NT has done a good job. SE may not have all the bells and whistles everyone wants.
    Just wanted to say my good 2 cents worth.
    Pete
    Pete Draves
    CV Productions
    Oak Creek, WI
    [email protected]

  6. #51
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    I agree with most of what has been said. NT has served me well since my Amiga day's. Have they always provided updates as fast as I'd like? No. HOWEVER, I have found their products to be reliable, they function for the most part as NT claims. They are at or near the cutting edge, at least when initially released. visit the forums of other NLE's and it's amazing how much they have same complaints.....we need better, faster,sooner.

    I would however like to see More "status updates" from those at NT authorized to release that kind of info. not firm dates or exact specs but even a simple "yes, were working on this or that, or we hit a snag on this but are hopeful it can be resolved soon. This forum is for the most part LOYAL long time NT users and I personally would find that meaningful, and believe thats how Customers deserve to be treated. ( might also save NT space on these forums...LOL )

    my 2.5 cents.

    bob s

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