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Thread: New dongle required for Core!

  1. #16
    I hope they drop the whole dongle concept.

    There are times when I want to do some 3D work at home but I can't, because I forgot the dongle at the office. As a single user with a license for 999 render nodes, why does it matter whether or not I have plugged in a USB thingy? I can only use one instance of LW at any given time anyway (haven't figured out a way to clone myself yet), and if a company with several employees wants to use the latest version of LW without paying for it, they can easily do so without having to worry about a dongle stopping them.

    The whole concept of binding software to some piece of hardware is flawed regardless of what solution is chosen. Hardware can break, disappear, go out of date, and does not provide any insurance against cracking or piracy of the software. The best way to have some sort of ownership ID would be a software based key you can take with you on a memory stick if physical portability is important to the licensee. If you loose your software ID key in a hardware crash, you download it again from your online account.

    If making sure that people are following the rules is important to NewTek, LW could check in the local network for duplicate instances of LW and close them down (apart from the last one launched and rendernodes). Similar to what 3DCoat is doing:

    A Serial Number is bound to a single user. Nobody else can use the Software on your computers. If you are a private individual, you may install and use the Software maximum on three computers — on one office computer and on two your personal home computers, provided that you do not use the Software simultaneously on more than one computer.

    Sometimes the Software will connect to the Pilgway’s web-based server to check simultaneous use of the software on a computer. No private information will be transferred, except for the serial number authentication. Pilgway’s web-based server will prohibit the work of the Software in case several computers simultaneously use the Software with one serial number. In case of repeated simultaneous use of the same serial number on several computers the serial number and the normal work of the Software will be permanently blocked.
    This could also be cracked of course and would probably be more of an annoyance to individuals forgetting they had a duplicate instance running of the software, than it would be a fully working copy protection.

    But of course, its up to NewTek how they want to do this, I only hope they choose the sensible way (since everything else about CORE is).

    & =

    Dongle & copy protection =

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by starbase1 View Post
    Well, it took a while but I got an answer from Newtek Europe.

    I need to move away from my ancient dongle to a USB one, not least as my current new shiny PC has no serial port. But it occured to me that there might be complications. In particular we have read that Core will play nicely with Linux, and also we know the a big barrier to getting the current Lightwave onto Linux (Under WINE) is that the dongle doesn't work under Linux.

    So I sent an email too Newtek Europe asking if Core might require a new dongle to work under Linux. And got the response "There is no exact information at this time - but it appears a new dongle will be necessary"

    So it's not only a case of paying 75 Euros just for the copy protection update, but it looks like I may have to do the same thing again in the near future.

    Now I notice the warnings about it not being certain yet, but I'd really hope that this is not as described. Or that the second updated dongle would be provided free of charge to anyone who upgraded in (say) the year before it came out.

    I accept the need for Netek to use systems like this, and find a dongle a much better method than the painful activation used by the likes of Vue. But this does seem a bit much to swallow.

    Nick
    Whoever gave you this information is just guessing; we are still investigating a variety of licensing options.
    Jay Roth
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    "Everything I write is forward looking -- specifications are subject to change without notice..."

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jayroth View Post
    Whoever gave you this information is just guessing; we are still investigating a variety of licensing options.
    Good to hear

  4. #19
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayroth View Post
    Whoever gave you this information is just guessing; we are still investigating a variety of licensing options.
    Thanks Jay,
    It was Carole at Newtek Europe. I guess here statement of it being possible is compatible with yours of not decided yet.

    I have also just found a clarification in my email inbox, which expands on the issue:

    However we can reassure you - as a HardCORE member you are entitled to all benefits. One of these is: Shipping version of the LightWave CORE™ software scheduled for Q4 release. Therefore, if there is a new USB dongle, it will be automatically sent to you.
    So it sounds like it is safe to buy a USB dongle without the possibility of paying again in some months. Which is great, and what I wanted to know.

    Personally I am in favour of the dongle system, what with multiple boots and reinstalling windows and PC upgrades over the years, I have lost count of the number of times I have installed my favourite graphics program!

    (And if you want to see how NOT to do it, try moving Vue around, complete with upgrades!)

    Thanks again,
    Nick
    Specialist subjects: Unflown space projects, and the space program of the Soviet Union.

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  5. #20
    Michael Nicholson zapper1998's Avatar
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    Stick with the DONGLE.....
    less hassle..
    I hope they do..

  6. #21
    I agree there are definitely many ways of doing it wrong in terms of licensing software:
    - Bind it to some hardware id on the computer (network card or other)
    - Maximum installs before you need a new license
    - Bound to OS, as with Adobe

    Treating the customer as a potential criminal until proven wrong is generally a bad way of handling it.

    I don't see though how a dongle is any benefit to say a licensing option such as the one coming with modo:
    Licensed to you, not your machine

    Machines come and go. Good software is forever. That's why Luxology licenses its products to you, not to your machines. Our straightforward licensing philosophy allows you to use modo on the machine you need to use it on, period. Lost your hard-drive in a crash? No need to contact us and beg us for a new license. Go download your license from your Luxology account! Good software should make your job easier, not create obstacles.
    I guess I have ranted enough about my standpoint, so I'll get back to getting stuff done. I'll just have to remember to crawl under the table to unplug the dongle when I go home, just in case I need it

    dongle

  7. #22
    "Indie" Game Artist GandB's Avatar
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    Not a fan of the dongle either.
    When you know you're a "cup half-full" kind of guy:

    "Sir; they've got us surrounded!"

    "Excellent! Now we can attack in any direction!"

  8. #23
    Hazarder Bataar LightWuv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    There are USB-RS232 serial port adapters available,
    Here is one for 13 usd http://www.usbgear.com/USB-Serial.html
    and USB-parallel port adapters for 18 usd
    http://shopper.cnet.com/networking/p...9-4778227.html
    What the genius said.
    Jin points: 5
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    HardCORE Hazarder
    行く川之流れは絶えずして, 然も元之水に非ず. Et hoc genus omne. Or whatever.

  9. #24
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
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    The USB to Serial adaptors are for the small 'joystick' type connectors, NOT the type used for the old dongle.
    Specialist subjects: Unflown space projects, and the space program of the Soviet Union.

    My main Web site

  10. #25
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    LW dongle is not using serial port but parallel port (old printer port is parallel- all bits go in the same time, in serial port bit is send by bit). That's why I showed that both USB adapters are available. Have not tried any by myself thought. Can somebody with old dongle check whether it's working at all?
    Last edited by Sensei; 03-07-2009 at 05:28 PM.

  11. #26
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    [QUOTE=petterms;846834
    But of course, its up to NewTek how they want to do this, I only hope they choose the "sensible way" (since everything else about CORE is).
    [/QUOTE]

    Of course you do realize doing it the "sensible way" means you are not allowed to sell your copy of modo if you want to like you can with lw and the dongle. This might be a big problem for some people.
    Last edited by Drocket; 03-07-2009 at 10:12 PM.

  12. #27
    "Indie" Game Artist GandB's Avatar
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    At least with the dongle you can move it EASILY from computer to computer.
    What's hard about entering a code, in order to use your application? Dongle's can break (just because yours hasn't yet, doesn't mean others won't)...codes/keys do not. While you're waiting for a replacement dongle, you are (or may be) losing valuable time...not to mention the potential cost. Doesn't make any sense. Either way, you have to have a copy of the program to install on the computer, in order to run it in the first place.

    Suppose you go on a trip and forget your dongle; now you're out of luck, unless you can register your app with a simple code/serial key. As far as piracy goes; everything (including LW with it's dongle) is pirated, there's no way around it.

    So, I say again, do away with the dongle.

    -Keith
    When you know you're a "cup half-full" kind of guy:

    "Sir; they've got us surrounded!"

    "Excellent! Now we can attack in any direction!"

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Drocket View Post
    Of course you do realize doing it the "sensible way" means you are not allowed to sell your copy of modo if you want to like you can with lw and the dongle. This might be a big problem for some people.
    OK, if it is not possible to sell your modo license, then that is a bad policy by Luxology. NewTek should take the route of "The software is bound to you, and if you choose to pass on your license to someone else, you can not use it anymore". I hear the question coming up, "Then how can they know you are not keeping the serial and using it anyway?", i suggest the following:

    You go to your online NewTek account, choose transfer license, specify the details of the new owner, and the current serial will be invalid and the new owner will get a new one. As with 3D Coat, the application could nuke itself if it finds it has "expired". That requires the machine to be online at some time, so if someone tries to keep it offline for as long as possible to keep using it illegally, they are just dumb by not googling for a cracked version instead. Not saying they should, but anyone can use LW without a license or dongle, so the physical dongle does not provide NewTek with any guarantees of legal usage.

    Think of the serial or key-file as a software based dongle. Bring your key file on a USB stick and use it as a dongle if you need to go to a client and use one of their machines with a temporary install of LW.

    As my office mate here also suggested, NewTek could even run a license server solution so you can do a temporary login to a LW install, "authenticate user for one session usage", as a backup/alternative to serial or key file solution.

    Now that I'm at it, NewTek should also have a server solution for plugins and scripts, Flay.com meets Apple's App Store, free solutions and commercial alike (Edit: or like Add-ons in Firefox + App Store). But that subject is a different thread.
    Last edited by MentalFish; 03-08-2009 at 02:02 PM.

  14. #29
    CORE 5718 mattclary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petterms View Post
    As my office mate here also suggested, NewTek could even run a license server solution so you can do a temporary login to a LW install, "authenticate user for one session usage", as a backup/alternative to serial or key file solution.

    Now that I'm at it, NewTek should also have a server solution for plugins and scripts, Flay.com meets Apple's App Store, free solutions and commercial alike (Edit: or like Add-ons in Firefox + App Store). But that subject is a different thread.
    Screw all that sh1t. Why is everyone trying to reinvent the wheel?

    I love the dongle system. I do NOT like activation servers and online authentication. If your dongle is lost, stolen, or broken, I hear NewTek is really good about working with you on that. If you forgot your dongle at home, look at it as a form of natural selection. You can't work, you can't eat, you can't pass your forgetful genes on to your forgetful little kids.

  15. #30
    this subject seems to be going in circles They way Mike_RB described the Modo system, it's basically a software dongle, a simple file you copy to the install you want to run and voila. Heck you could even put that file on an USB stick and you have your USB dongle.

    I've never used that, and I like the dongle, but I must say a simple file replacing the dongle sounds even better. Allthough a bit easier to circumvent so from NT's POV I understand sticking to the dongle.

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