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Thread: What DVD Authoring Software will make chapters directly from speededit rende

  1. #16
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea Richard, but it wouldn't work.

    It would work to get it into Vegas and to get the markers into Vegas at the correct places, but once you have the MPEG-2 there with the markers, how would you put the markers there into the MPEG-2 without re-rendering? You couldn't.

    The would be on the GOP boundaries though, since TMPGEnc would have put them where the markers were.

    IF there was a way to do this directly into DVDA, that would work, but I don't see a way to do that.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  2. #17
    Registered User rbartlett's Avatar
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    Ah, and the idea seemed logical too!

    I'm still attempting to determine if there is a method of receiving the AVI-project-save-wrapper from SpeedEDIT and then rendering to an AVI or MPG that would be good enough for mastering purposes but would also include the .sfl companion file. I've tried getting DVD Architect to import an AC3 file to grab the markers for the .sfl associated to it, to no avail thus far.

    So now I'm left with this convoluted additional render, that might serve no purpose other than as a workaround (as TMPGEnc is being relied on for speed and quality).

    What I'll try in the nights to come is to render the very much more useful ac3 file out of Vegas and see if the .sfl file can be patched to change the name of the file it refers to (and rename the filename.sfl) to be the MPG or M2V file from TMPGEnc. It might be that even if TMPGEnc is best writing .m2v that the reader in DVD Architect will only accept the .SFL referring to and when matched up against an MPG.

    As the .SFL is a RIFF headered file, it might not take too much effort to patch the filename across. Maybe no need for any CRC calcs etc as AVI streams don't necessarily have a guaranteed end. There is no guarantee as interestingly the NewTek served markers appear in the same color, but they don't appear with timecodes on the 'View | Edit Details' spreadsheet style view in VegasPro8.

    It would seem that Sony Creative Software (the Toronto branch/division as I understand it) could better serve us by permitting ac3 derived chapter points to be imported _where_ the video track is otherwise devoid of any markers, or by a toggle switch.


    I'm also not exhausted with my search for a Vasst or Ed Troxel script to assist but our situation here may be quite unusual in that generally speaking Sony folks assume no interop for markers between 'editing-software' vendors.

  3. #18
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Yeah. Ironically, you can load and save markers inside of DVDA to the clip via a .SFL, so how hard could it have been to actually let people do it from other programs via say a normal text file!

    Ah well. Suites are the way to go in NLE>authoring anyway.

    SpeedEDIT is the only NLE that doesn't at least bundle something that can work with it. EDIUS 5 bundles the consumer Blu-ray/DVD authoring software from Ulead (Corel). I would think GV/T would make it import markers from EDIUS at least, if they can. Though Newtek tried to do this with DVD Workshop and they couldn't, so it may not be possible. Ulead's old EOL MediaStudio Pro could pass markers to DVD WS.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  4. #19
    Registered User rbartlett's Avatar
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    A bit of progress... almost smiling now.....

    Firstly, before I foget - let me mention that I've found Vegas to handle SpeedEDIT-project-AVI-wrapper files much better when they are opened from the main Vegas project opening file requester (File Open) - rather than attempting to drag and drop from outside the app or even using the internal explorer. I suppose this could be due to the VfW attributes of the NewTek wrapper but Vegas is usually saddled with that ancestry - not sure, YMMV but I'll be sticking to opening using via the File-Open method from now on (Vegas 8.0c build 179 seems to appreciate this anyway).


    My testing so far has found that DVD Architect 5 cannot currently directly ingest markers from the SFL associated with an AC3 render from Vegas.


    Originally the missing info was in how to determine what, in Sony speak exactly were the orange markers that appear from ingesting the NewTek wrapped media files. I realized that they were regions/markers in that the 'properties general' information in Vegas shows them as being:
    "Other metadata
    Regions/markers: yes"

    This is why they are tight and within the track rather than tall sticks traversing all tracks in Vegas.

    I understand they are 'LABL' metadata tags (labels in RIFF speak). Indeed there is a script to convert them to chapter markers inside Vegas, just as there are scripts to convert CD-track-regions and regions but the one we need is provided rather than provided by a 3rd party.


    In Vegas, (I think you need to select the video track to then) apply Tools->Scripting-'Promote Media Markers'. If you didn't know this, this then makes the media clips into the equivalent of project markers in Vegas.

    Then you can save an AC3 and expect it to match your original SpeedEDIT project.
    What you can't be sure of is whether DVDArchitect be entirely happy with the duration of your AC3 vs your TMPG MPEG-2 video content. There maybe a timecode duration issue depending on differences outside your control.

    But please note, you'll need to do a bit of a hoopla - and this is why I'm only just about smiling. You'll need to alter the TMPGEnc output to be Untitled.MPG (possibly Untitled.m2v) and the Untitled.ac3.sfl to be altered (null/default purely as examples).

    I've used the Posix originated (and the Windows port thereof) stream/binary replacement tool 'rpl'
    http://sourceforge.net/project/downl..._mirror=heanet
    There are all manner of different ways to achieve the same functionality, I chose this as it a familiar tool to me and I doubt it could upset anyone's fine working machines but caveat emptor nevertheless!

    Download and install this and then from the cmd.exe prompt:

    cd to the directory where your media files live, perhaps it is your V: device
    "c:\Program Files\GnuWin32\bin\rpl" -p Untitled.ac3 Untitled.mpg Untitled.ac3.sfl
    then
    Replacing "Untitled.ac3" with "Untitled.mpg" (case sensitive) (partial words matched)
    .
    Save 'V:\<yourmedia-folder>\Untitled.ac3.sfl' ? ([Y]/N) y
    Saved.

    A Total of 1 matches replaced in 1 file searched.

    V:\<yourmedia-folder>\move Untitled.ac3.sfl Untitled.mpg.sfl

    Then you'll be able to drop either the AC3 or the MPG into DVDArchitect and the chapter markers will follow.

    This hardly makes DVD Architect an ideal or the most ergonomic fit for SpeedEDIT, but it may well be the best and it isn't too shabby. (indeed I'm not even sure if Encore can accept AVI LABL metadata and by some means promote these to what it would use as markers?)

    If you don't want to mess around at the cmd prompt then I'll happily write a windows based tool to duplicate AC3.SFLs as MPG.SFL/M2V.SFL. My program writing skills could probably stretch to this small but useful workaround oriented task!

    All this assumes there isn't any further gotchas from combining Vegas with NewTek's AVI-wrapper and generating AC3s with TMPGEnc (RTV.plug-in-derived) MPEG-2s.

    As I see it, what with my testing thus far do watch out for precise 'length' calculation issues to cater for, especially when sizing the Vegas AC3 render 'loop region' against the end-timecode/length seen on the SpeedEDIT graticule. This might not be an issue anyway as long as your last chapter marker in the AC3 original isn't too close to the end of what will become the referenced MPG video-only file. I'd encourage you to save your SpeedEDIT and Vegas projects as you go so that you can maintain consistency throughout.

    Similarly, I'd encourage you to make a stereo (or quad) audio 16bit 48k WAV out of SpeedEDIT rather than relying on the NewTek AVI wrapper. Bring that into Vegas.

    If this works for you too, please post!

  5. #20
    What I did with DVDA is I impoted the video from vt4 with markers they show up as chapters. I think there is a save marker button, so i save the markers and did a replace clip or just delete and add the new clip i converted in TMPGEnc and reload the markers. I dont know if it works on the newer version or not. but it used to work.
    If its free then it wont cost anything, right?

  6. #21
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Chesbro View Post
    What I did with DVDA is I impoted the video from vt4 with markers they show up as chapters. I think there is a save marker button, so i save the markers and did a replace clip or just delete and add the new clip i converted in TMPGEnc and reload the markers. I dont know if it works on the newer version or not. but it used to work.
    How do you import the video?
    Save as AVI?
    Curious,
    Jose Burgos
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  7. #22
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Chesbro View Post
    What I did with DVDA is I impoted the video from vt4 with markers they show up as chapters. I think there is a save marker button, so i save the markers and did a replace clip or just delete and add the new clip i converted in TMPGEnc and reload the markers. I dont know if it works on the newer version or not. but it used to work.
    Well... The Save Marker button saves a .SFL file with the name of the clip... So it will only load those markers if the new clip has the same name... I'll have to look into if there's a replace clip function...
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  8. #23
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joseburgos View Post
    How do you import the video?
    Save as AVI?
    Curious,
    AVI Wrapper.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  9. #24
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpioProd View Post
    Well... The Save Marker button saves a .SFL file with the name of the clip... So it will only load those markers if the new clip has the same name... I'll have to look into if there's a replace clip function...
    Not saying it would work definitely, but I'm thinking rename is pretty simple ...
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  10. #25
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpioProd View Post
    AVI Wrapper.
    Ok but you are saying that the imported AVI wrapper file keeps its markers when you load it into DVDA?
    Jose Burgos
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  11. #26
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Not saying it would work definitely, but I'm thinking rename is pretty simple ...
    If it was just a text file with markers, yes... But as Richard points out, it's actually this binary file with all kinds of non-text stuff in it that may tie more tightly to the "real" clip.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  12. #27
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joseburgos View Post
    Ok but you are saying that the imported AVI wrapper file keeps its markers when you load it into DVDA?
    Yes, into DVDA or Vegas.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  13. #28
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    Damn not Encore
    Will I found a pretty cool tool in Adobe Media Encoder that converts a video into a comment note PDF file.
    This file opens in Acrobat and displays the video with a note section.
    you move the time line and add notes exactly where the time line is.
    Then you save a file and load this into Premiere which converts it to markers.
    I viewed the file and it is a XML type file.
    So I need to find someone that writes XML files and see if a PDF style comment xml file can be made from the markers inside the avi wrapper file.
    Jose Burgos
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  14. #29
    Rock'nRoll Set Visualiser Adrian@Stufish's Avatar
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    Can't help thinking that expecting any 3rd party DVD authoring software to suck chapter points from a project is a little strange.
    I know video takes a lot of disk space, but not that much, perfectly easy in SpeedEdit to render your finished edit back out to whatever codec/quality matches your input - in either a single file or multiples as fits the project. Then you can archive that, dump all the source stuff, and when you want a DVD drop it into your favourite authoring app and mark your chapters in there, not exactly a laborious task? - compared to all that faffing about exporting chapter points!
    Personally, all my material is in SpeedHQ at project size (usually LW renders at PAL 720 P) and if I want a DVD I just start a PAL or NTSC widescreen project in TMPGEnc Authoring works 4 and drop the SpeedHQ avi's in.
    Does an ace conversion job, I archive the ISO and run off as neccesary.

    Or am I wearing completely the wrong anoraK?
    It's only Rock & Roll, but it pays the wages!

  15. #30
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Can't help thinking that expecting any 3rd party DVD authoring software to suck chapter points from a project is a little strange.
    Only because the rest of the world is using integrated editing/authoring suites.

    when you want a DVD drop it into your favourite authoring app and mark your chapters in there, not exactly a laborious task? - compared to all that faffing about exporting chapter points!
    See if you keep that opinion when you are doing projects like a dance recital with 90 dances that need chapter points.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

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