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Thread: The truth about TriCaster 2.0 and Final Cut Pro compatibility

  1. #46
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    Keys

    'Don't want to muddy the waters here -- we appreciate what Newtek is trying to do and understand that progress is necessary, difficult and fraught with complications. That being said -- we never upgraded our Studio to V2, and have on more than one occasion used it to record location green screen shoots for later composites. We pulled the keys in Ultra as 32-bit image sequences, which we pitched into Aura for glow and shadowing. We rendered those out uncompressed w/aplha and did our composites on the SE timeline with stunning results- the best SD keys we've ever done, in fact.
    I've sold some V2 TCasters, and once the original audio problems were resolved, the recording seems to look okay. For me, personally (being a change-resistant old phart and all) I'm fine with the old NT25 in Version 1 -- I know exactly what to expect and I like what I get when I use it. We don't shoot much SD any more, but when we do, we know that we're going to get great quality from our V1 Studio with no workflow hassles down the line. AVI is much more ubiquitous in our shop than Mpeg, and handles much better on our machines. Of course, we only deliver completed product, so our issues are probably not much like those of the world at large.
    Stephen Self
    Happy NewTekie Since 1998
    www.n-ventivetv.com

  2. #47
    Registered User ted's Avatar
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    Stephen, Have you tried keying the new MPEG 2 files in SpeedEDIT or with other software? I'm not talking about using a soft glow around the subject, but making a clean realistic key?
    Ted R. Ruiz Sr.
    Ad-Venture Video Productions
    Elite NewTek Dealer
    www.editbay.tv
    TriCasters, Most All Models
    Cameras-Mostly HVX 200's

  3. #48
    Live Events Rule!
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    I would agree 100% with everything NVentive stated, and would have to include myself in the "being a change-resistant old phart and all" category as well. Having admitted to that, I would like to add that the TriCaster as originally configured was an elegant and exquisite portable solution to live event switching, streaming and recording. It fulfilled its purpose perfectly. We use a TC Pro FX (still not software upgraded) that is an extremely reliable workhorse, producing the cleanest live keys I've ever seen in all the years I've worked in the industry. And, we have concurrently worked in FCP as a finishing tool/DVD authoring system since we began using TC.

    The question I would pose is this... is NewTek being pressured to try and make "one box do everything for everybody?"
    And in that quest, has the very thing that made the foundation TC concept (ease and simplicity of use, the incredible media quality- NT25, awesome keying ability, dependable performance, the ease of streaming) being sacrificed?

    Just a thought...
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    Doug Green, NewTekie since 1990

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  4. #49
    We Make Effective FX! DiscreetFX's Avatar
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    Our TriCaster Pro FX is also still on the old software. It works great so we have been tempted to upgrade but have not done so yet. Is it correct to say that you loose NT25 in favor of MPEG2 when using version 2.0 of the software?
    DiscreetFX Team
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  5. #50
    Live Events Rule!
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    That would be a "yes" billpana
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    Doug Green, NewTekie since 1990

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  6. #51
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    Keys

    No, Ted, we have not -- the whole 4:2:0 thing doesn't make sense to me in a keying situation. Maybe it'll work great, but I have never tried it. In the past, we always recorded our GScreen stuffs to our VT system as uncompressed 4:2:2 AVI and cut the alpha in either Ultra or DF. We have never been able to get a good key in VT or SE, which has been a frustration. We do prefer to composite in VT/SE however, so that we can tweak colors, etc as the project develops.
    On the project I mentioned, we had no choice but to shoot on location, which put us in a bit of a jam -- we didn't want to record 4:1:1, and we didn't want to pull and move our VT. That's when we remembered that NT25 was 4:2:2, we took our TCaster and ended up very happy. We are still getting amazing feedback from that job, and have landed several more from it.
    We shoot everything HD now with our Panny 200A, so many of our keying problems have gone away. Other problems have crept in, however, but those are not for this thread.
    Stephen Self
    Happy NewTekie Since 1998
    www.n-ventivetv.com

  7. #52
    Registered User ted's Avatar
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    That's what I'll have to do with in studio shoots. We'll have to do them on VT.

    What a shame, since most everyone in our market has seen our TriCaster and heard me brag SO VERY MUCH about what an AWESOME tool it is.
    It's going to suck when I have to tell them why we are not using it for those projects.

    Fortunately it does do some other cool stuff.
    And since it's not a hardware change, I keep hoping NewTek will add more options for recording.

    On your other note, I'm hoping VT-SE gets the same keyer TriCaster has. TC's keyer is awesome! Could use more adjustments, but it's still awesome.
    We feed 2 HVX's via component and get a great key. Our Beta can only feed a composite signal and that's not as good, but works well on a wide V.S. shot.
    It's good to see how others are using TC.
    Last edited by ted; 02-18-2009 at 08:30 PM.
    Ted R. Ruiz Sr.
    Ad-Venture Video Productions
    Elite NewTek Dealer
    www.editbay.tv
    TriCasters, Most All Models
    Cameras-Mostly HVX 200's

  8. #53
    Live Events Rule!
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    Ted and Stephen-
    Great input and suggestions regarding keying. I have tested both pulldowns using identical GScreen/key setup (camera, lighting, subject). Posted both on same system, same processing. Playback direct from TC DDR.
    As I produce live events exclusively, the viewing of my productions is typically on a 15' x 20' RP screen via a high end 12,000 lumen digital projector. With TC digital output set at the projectors native resolution of 1280x1024, the difference becomes very apparent. The NT25 media maintains a clean cut key from acquisition through screening, and for me, that results in repeat business.
    I would love to install the upgrade to gain the new features that it offers, but like Ted, am hoping and holding out for a NewTek solution down the road.
    ____________________

    Doug Green, NewTekie since 1990

    MultiMagic, Inc.
    Holley, New York 14470

    (585) 704-4634

  9. #54
    Registered User ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMI View Post
    ...and for me, that results in repeat business.
    And that's the key to success!
    Thanks for your feedback as well. I know if NewTek sees enough of our concerns they will make an effort to take care of our needs... for our clients.
    Ted R. Ruiz Sr.
    Ad-Venture Video Productions
    Elite NewTek Dealer
    www.editbay.tv
    TriCasters, Most All Models
    Cameras-Mostly HVX 200's

  10. #55
    It's ALL about the light Paul Lara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTech View Post
    When I drag the video file in FCE to the Timeline, it shows a video track, but no audio track.
    What happens if you use the companion audio file that is recorded with your video stream? That is there specifically for Final Cut users, as most other systems don't have problems reading the embedded audio.
    Don't stream it - TriCast it!

  11. #56
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    'Was under the impression that Quicktime video playback, for most flavors, are quite demanding on the CPU, compared to common AVI codecs, generally. Is that correct?
    Last edited by Quiet1onTheSet; 02-20-2009 at 10:34 AM.

  12. #57
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    Count Me In!

    Quote Originally Posted by MMI View Post
    Ted and Stephen-
    Great input and suggestions regarding keying. ...
    I would love to install the upgrade to gain the new features that it offers, but like Ted, am hoping and holding out for a NewTek solution down the road.
    We too are (for now), old-system holdouts in favor of SpeedHQ 4:2:2 recording, resulting in fantastic keying ability from live, through to post on TriCaster STUDIO(tm).

    For the record, NewTek's SpeedHQ 4:2:2 has been our go-to compression format for such keying and compositing operations requiring less processor demand, while saving on available disk space, with negligible compromise in chroma integrity.
    Last edited by Quiet1onTheSet; 02-20-2009 at 11:34 AM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMI View Post
    I would agree 100% with everything NVentive stated, and would have to include myself in the "being a change-resistant old phart and all" category as well. Having admitted to that, I would like to add that the TriCaster as originally configured was an elegant and exquisite portable solution to live event switching, streaming and recording. It fulfilled its purpose perfectly. We use a TC Pro FX (still not software upgraded) that is an extremely reliable workhorse, producing the cleanest live keys I've ever seen in all the years I've worked in the industry. And, we have concurrently worked in FCP as a finishing tool/DVD authoring system since we began using TC.
    Just for the record, gang, I believe TriCaster PRO, TriCaster STUDIO and TriCaster PRO FX, as originally configured, utilized SpeedHQ 4:2:2, while the base TriCaster (TC100) utilized SpeedHQ's predecessor, called NT25, AFAIK.

    Someone please feel free to correct me, if I'm mistaken on any of these details.


    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post

    The question I would pose is this... is NewTek being pressured to try and make "one box do everything for everybody?"
    I don't believe we've actually heard just what the objective is, relative to that one codec fits all, culture that's developed around our beloved TriCaster portable live production systems, except that the idea was to make it easier to migrate among various popular NLEs. While a noble objective, I'm not too certain that it addresses the all-important need for no compromise in keying quality, through to post-production operations (even on TriCaster), IMHO -- but hey, I could be missing something...

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    And in that quest, has the very thing that made the foundation [TriCaster] concept (ease and simplicity of use, the incredible media quality- NT25, awesome keying ability, dependable performance, the ease of streaming) being sacrificed?

    Just a thought...
    I'll bet'cha a dollar that NewTek has something up their chroma-blue sleeves, that'll put this keying-through-to-post issue to bed, and that, in the form of "freedom of choice" among codecs for recording -- at least, on certain TriCaster models.

    Let me see here...
    OK. There! I'll wager you 2 quarters, 4 dimes and 2 nickles...
    Last edited by Quiet1onTheSet; 02-20-2009 at 11:54 AM.

  14. #59
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    4 Grins

    We started a little experimental project a few months ago, playing around with click-thru numbers. When we started, we were shooting HD and composting on SE so we could get some experience with various workflows. Just this week, we switched the thing over to TriCaster, and in final res it looks as good as what we were doing in HD. It can be found at www.latenightspotlight.com -- pardon the dumpy page, we're going with the free godaddy for now. You can also catch it (with better resolution) on the 'Late Night Spotlight Group' on facebook.
    When she asks "What's all that jumping around back there?" at the end, she is seeing us in the control room cheering at how smoothly it all went together on the very first take. This type of thing is insanely easy to do in TCaster. Many of us may have contrary opinions on some specific implementations, I think we can all agree that this is one awesome little box.
    Stephen Self
    Happy NewTekie Since 1998
    www.n-ventivetv.com

  15. #60
    Registered User ted's Avatar
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    Stephen, nice.
    TriCaster IS an amazing produciton tool!
    Last edited by ted; 02-25-2009 at 02:27 PM.
    Ted R. Ruiz Sr.
    Ad-Venture Video Productions
    Elite NewTek Dealer
    www.editbay.tv
    TriCasters, Most All Models
    Cameras-Mostly HVX 200's

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