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Thread: A Word from The Loser.

  1. #16
    Fibonnaci Sequins theo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    Imagine the students with degree majors in things like psychology...only to find out AFTER the fact that there is NO demand for graduates with Bachelors Degrees in Physcology.
    I can understand this. Critical psychology is one of the more subjective and ambiguous sciences. Hence, its heavy indoctrination of cleverly muted and disguised religious principles.

    Of course, not ALL psychology is tainted with this social flavor but much of what is taught to the body of hollow minds stems from archaic social principles.

  2. #17
    Unemployed Jester sandman300's Avatar
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    I'm right there with you. Submitted but apparently not good enough for the reel.
    For Is and Is-not though with Rule and Line
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    Of all that one should care to fathom, I
    was never deep in anything but--Wine.

  3. #18
    Registered User Andyjaggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    You'd be a little disaffected too if you spent 4 yrs training for a career, only to find out that your degree is worth as about as much as a cup of coffee in the marketplace.
    Imagine the students with degree majors in things like psychology...only to find out AFTER the fact that there is NO demand for graduates with Bachelors Degrees in Physcology.

    Universitie's are just like car lots...if you go in uninformed (not knowing what the job market requires in your chosen field), you're very likely going to come away being ripped off...no matter how well you applied yourself. But what's worse is...you'll find yourself having the debt load of a few cars, with nothing but a fancy piece of paper to show for it. At least, if you get ripped off at the dealership you have an automobile to drive. Get screwed by your local Uni, and you can't even afford to step foot on a car lot!
    Somehow, the word "disaffected" isn't sufficiently discriptive.

    The major problem at many state colleges is that too much time and finances is spent on "General Education" and non-career specific courses. That is the REAL ripoff. If you are trying to prepare for your given job market, screw all the "diverse education" giberish...it needs to be at least 80% career specific. Anything less is theft...
    You just about summed up my general opinion on college. Sound like you might have walked that road yourself too.

  4. #19
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyjaggy View Post
    You just about summed up my general opinion on college. Sound like you might have walked that road yourself too.
    I'm just really surprised at the level of apathy over this topic...maybe it's because many careers really don't require 4yrs of in-depth training, so all the General Ed stuff is just filler. BUT THAT IS RIPPING OFF THE STUDENT...and the states who help subsidize the theft. I firmly believe our (secondary) education system is in dire need of a MAJOR overhaul...with the main focus being:
    1) PREPARE THE STUDENTS FOR THEIR SPECIFIC PROFESSION as much as possible!
    2) Eliminate the WASTEFUL content that (the student will NEVER use)contributes IN NO MEANINGFUL WAY toward the first goal.

    There is no logical reason to REQUIRE a student to go into massive debt for courses that are simply fluff...if these Education Union idiots want students to be "WELL ROUNDED" then they need to make those classes free of charge!
    Most students would NEVER elect to take them...because they know full well that they simply DO NOT PREPARE THEM FOR THE JOB MARKET. That is the mission statement of secondary education...not put "Well-Rounded" individuals in the market...but rather "Well-Prepared." What does a Computer Graphics Artist need from a Natural Sciences course? Even "Art Appreciation" requirements is nothing but fluff. If you don't get enough fluff in Junior High and High School, then so be it. Outside of that, the student is footing the bill, and the state shouldn't be in the business of forcing students to "Buy" what they neither need nor want!!!
    I wish there was a way to tap into the rebellious nature of college kids and start a revolt against this blatant robbery!
    Stop letting "The Man" rip you off!
    Last edited by AbnRanger; 09-09-2008 at 05:21 PM.

  5. #20
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Sorry for getting O.T.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program

  6. #21
    Globally Illuminated The Dommo's Avatar
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    I agree - it's the same kinda thing here. We spent 3 years of a full time course, requiring a big fat student loan to survive on your own, only to find our 'animation' course was being run by a guy who was qualified as a journalist, and his 'animation' classes were simply him handing us photocopies of a chunk of software manual, and him reading this to us. We could have learned faster ourselves by not having to listen to him, and just read the stuff. The other problem is of course that once you give up on the tutors, you are paying like £13,000 for a course where you are teaching yourself.

    Ready for a career after university? Hell no.

    Yeah, thanks.... Just what we needed.
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  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    I'm just really surprised at the level of apathy over this topic...maybe it's because many careers really don't require 4yrs of in-depth training, so all the General Ed stuff is just filler. BUT THAT IS RIPPING OFF THE STUDENT...and the states who help subsidize the theft. I firmly believe our (secondary) education system is in dire need of a MAJOR overhaul...with the main focus being:
    1) PREPARE THE STUDENTS FOR THEIR SPECIFIC PROFESSION as much as possible!
    What you are talking about is a trade school, and those died out about 15-20 years ago. While I do agree that the Universities are in need or repair. I don't agree with turning them into trade schools that only teach specific subject matter.

  8. #23
    Registered User Andyjaggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dommo View Post
    I agree - it's the same kinda thing here. We spent 3 years of a full time course, requiring a big fat student loan to survive on your own, only to find our 'animation' course was being run by a guy who was qualified as a journalist, and his 'animation' classes were simply him handing us photocopies of a chunk of software manual, and him reading this to us. We could have learned faster ourselves by not having to listen to him, and just read the stuff. The other problem is of course that once you give up on the tutors, you are paying like £13,000 for a course where you are teaching yourself.

    Ready for a career after university? Hell no.

    Yeah, thanks.... Just what we needed.
    Oh so true. I think universities are great for some things but face it we are in an industry that doesn't usually give a care what school you went to if you went at all. I had the same bad experience, teachers that didn't know what they were talking about. Had no real world experience and had never worked in the industry. I am sure there are some great programs out there taught by qualified teachers that will really prepare you but it sure wasn't at my school. I got burned and am now pretty bitter about it, especially when I write out that check every month for my student loans.

  9. #24
    Globally Illuminated The Dommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyjaggy View Post
    I got burned and am now pretty bitter about it, especially when I write out that check every month for my student loans.
    Know exactly what you are saying.
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  10. #25
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Enjoy your losership while you can. It's quite boring to be the favorite.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  11. #26
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantbk View Post
    What you are talking about is a trade school, and those died out about 15-20 years ago. While I do agree that the Universities are in need or repair. I don't agree with turning them into trade schools that only teach specific subject matter.
    I know what trade schools are for...

    My Point is that W-W-W-A-A-A-A-Y-Y-Y too much time is consumed in a typical 4yr degree on "Well-Rounded" education...again, fluff that flat out won't buy you a cup of coffee when you get out, and 95-99% will be flushed out of your memory banks within the first year. That's the reality of it, and these Education Union Scammers know it!

    Because it does not contribute anything meaningful toward the primary goal of preparing you for the marketplace, it should be kept to an Absolute minimum (no more than 10-15%). If the student didn't learn enough General Ed material by the time they graduate High School, then I say, tough luck...Times up on the education system. You had them until they were old enough to be adults. Time to stop robbing them with wasteful, worthless, and most importantly...expensive courses. It doesn't just rob them of money and brain matter, but another VERY valuable commodity....TIME.

    Let me give you a practical example. When I lived in the Nashville, Tennessee area, I did some research of the various 4yr colleges in the area to see which programs had a degree in 3D animation. MTSU (Middle Tennessee State Univ) was the only one. It is actually a huge college, with a larger student population than the University of Tennessee, in Knoxville.
    I looked over the course plan and it was the most pathetic excuse for an education in this career field, you can imagine. All you had was an Intro, Intermediate, and Advanced Animation class. The other media-related classes were more or less cross-training in other disciplines, like graphic design. That's well below what a 2yr Technical college (like ITT tech) would provide.

    So, in the end, a student graduating from there is far less prepared for the job market than the ITT grad...for the very same profession and job market.
    The key difference is, that the MTSU grad can look down his nose at the Tech School Grad, when in reality...it's the Tech school kid who should be feeling very sorry for the MTSU kid, cause he's got about $30,000 more of student loan debt to deal with, and for the sake of bragging rights and a piece of paper, he also just funked-off 2 more years of his life.
    The most important factor is that the ITT kid is probably going to have a much more impressive demo reel. So, given that practical scenario, who invested wisely, and who didn't?
    I just feel very strongly that the whole concept of Universities and state colleges is one driven by pompous aristocrats within the Education community. I see as partly driven by a self-preserving mechanism on their part. After all...if colleges and Universities DID begin to put more focus on preparing the student for the marketplace, then hordes of their colleagues would be out of a job! Couldn't have THAT, now could we? I say, let them get regular jobs like the rest of us.
    This idea that Universities are just preparing students for a career, but "PREPARING THEM FOR LIFE"...is the biggest line of B.S. (Bovine Scatology) known to modern man. It's the parents job to prepare them for life...not the knuckleheads governing the Education Unions!

    All the spanish classes I took...didn't prepare me...FOR LIFE!
    The Anatomy and Biology classes (took Biology in HS, yet have to learn the very same crap in college all over again) didn't prepare me...FOR LIFE.
    They just hung a few G'notes around my neck, is all. No impact on my "collective intelligence" at all! Any education is only so good to the extent that you will continue to use what you have learned. That is why the goal of preparing the student to enter the market place should be primary and dominant. Why? because it is the ONLY education material that they can continue to practice and further expand upon in their career. Fluff courses are, in a very pragmatic sense, FAT around the waste of the modern education system. All I'm saying is trim the fat...."Work it out, folks. And a 1 and a 2. Now back to the start..."

  12. #27
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Well, over here the point of universities is not job training but to teach you scientific thinking (which also includes the ability to figure stuff out for yourself).
    Now, just that may be a requirement for certain jobs, but certainly not all of them.

    On the other hand, if the parents prepared you so well for life, why did you make such a bad educational choice then?

    Cheers,
    Mike - who quit uni.

  13. #28
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    http://www.foxnews.com/video-search/...?q=school+daze

    I didn't say I made a bad decision...I actually avoided it, but that doesn't preclude me from loathing the scam that much of the education system is...being tought Critical thinking skills is worth $30,000-$200,000?
    Last edited by AbnRanger; 09-11-2008 at 03:28 AM.

  14. #29
    Running at 29.97 fps Titus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post

    All the spanish classes I took...didn't prepare me...FOR LIFE!
    Oh, just wait until your country is full of Mexicans .

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    1) PREPARE THE STUDENTS FOR THEIR SPECIFIC PROFESSION as much as possible!

    i am speaking only from a CG artist POV: this advice is not always the best. it really depends on what the profession entails, and in CG, i believe i know more or less what works and what doesnt, at least in our locality.

    i personally prefer people who have a fine arts background, strong sense of design, color, etc. those that go to specialised schools may or may not have training in these things, because some spend considerable time learning software. learning software is not a good investment, imo, when i college. you can learn after college, where the software would have probably changed. i think more backbone courses, courses that make you think are essential.

    in general, i'd rather have a 'well-rounded' person because they are usually easier to train.
    "The hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men, and His compulsion is our liberation." - C.S. Lewis


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