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Thread: Some after thoughts

  1. #121
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Cheers to that. Imagine one minute you won. Your animation is at Siggy full screen you have a small interview on the front page of NT website along with your winning entry. You have no idea why you won, your just a newbie but you stayed up late and kept at it just like every one else with some bit of hope but are happy with your submission for what it is. And so you are so happy you can not sleep. Life is good. Within a few hours you check into the website see that there is this full fledged flame war against your work, people saying all this stuff about it. Instantly you go from on top of the world down to a knot in your stomach wondering what hit you.

    A shame really. Would be one thing if this was the broad theater of life and it was the critics flaming you. But your own group of artists in the community. Like all of the actors getting together at an after party of the Academy Awards and stringing up the guy who won best actor. What kind of group would you consider that?

    The upside is, if you look at this as a microcosm of larger things, this is a good sign. Show me one person with a large amount of success that does not have his detractors and is not continually panned in the press. Seems the bigger the success the harder they like to see e'm fall. I'd say this kid has a bright future.
    This is the first time I can ever recall saying anything remotely negative about a contest or entries therein (I felt it was egregious to the other artists enough to speak up instead of playing nice and dignified like). There IS a time, true enough, to show courtesy, sportsmanship and manners...but there are also some rare occasions when it's necessary to ditch the formalities and fake gestures of sportsmanship, and call a spade a spade.
    You're trying to frame it as if people are just taking swipes at everyone's work, like it's Open Season or something. That's just not the case at all.
    We're talking about ONE simple robot. I am not criticizing it on it's own merits, but in relation to the other entries, because the gap was so collosal. And this comes after Larry Shultz and other forum members pleaded with Newtek to stop putting amateur work on display over professional work. Damned if they didn't do it again...maybe just for spite. Nothing personal against DAVE school students or Dominic's robot. He didn't choose his own work over the others...It was Newtek doing it
    You think it's proper to bite your tongue. I think not in this one unique case.
    Last edited by AbnRanger; 08-17-2008 at 07:02 AM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by John Jordan View Post
    I have a bridge you may be interested in for a low, low price.
    There is also the legal issues, because prize's with dollar values were given to the winners, unless there is some fine print somewhere. Not following the contest rules, if proved, could lead to legal action against NewTek. remember the Harrier jet from the movie True Lies. He contest winner had all the point for the jet. That person sued the contest for breaking the contest rules and not giving him the full scale mockup of the Harrier Jet.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Well, I don't know if we disagree on that. I think they should. I think it was ill advised to show a longer version of he entry and not expect some flak. But once they did and then explained it, it was good enough for me.
    If that is the case than why are you still trying to convince people? You are not going to change my view, or many of the other people here who are telling you that NewTek had hurt their reputation with this contest. It doesn't really matter what NewTek said on page one. There actions do not follow their talk, nor did their actions comply with the rules of the contest. NewTek screwed up and NewTek needs to own up to that.

  4. #124
    Witty tagline coming soon cohominous's Avatar
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    Uh.. I get what you're saying, but...that guy lost.

  5. #125
    Witty tagline coming soon cohominous's Avatar
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    I'm outta here.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    For what it's worth...I seriously question NEWTEK's decision...an egregiously poor one, IMHO...not Dominic for his work. If he felt it sufficient to enter a simple bouncing ball animation, that's fine and dandy. Doesn't make a difference to me, one bit. BUT...when Newtek shuns the hard work of the other artists in favor of the bouncing ball (which this robot is mighty close to.
    So your not having a go about Dominics work - yet a few comments later, compare it to a bouncy ball. I don't think thats very nice. You can see plain as day it was better than that! The Robot isn't close to a bouncy ball it all... for one the Robot doesn't bounce. It took a lot more to animate than a silly bouncy ball. It actually dances... or didn't you realise?

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    I'm bowing out of the post-show slamfest. To all the contestants who busted their bum on this, bang-up job guys...even if your work seemed to go unrewarded. Really impressive, especially considering the short deadline.

  8. #128
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Peabody01 View Post
    So your not having a go about Dominics work - yet a few comments later, compare it to a bouncy ball. I don't think thats very nice. You can see plain as day it was better than that! The Robot isn't close to a bouncy ball it all... for one the Robot doesn't bounce. It took a lot more to animate than a silly bouncy ball. It actually dances... or didn't you realise?
    Hey...now we're getting somewhere! You can tell the difference between the level of skill required to model a bouncing ball and robot comprised of a few more primitives.
    Now, can you tell the difference between a robot comprised of a handful of boxes and cylinders...that can be modeled in Vue 5 (which has no modeling tools, btw), and complex characters and sets which require countless hours more to create and texture...and animate?

    That's right....I thought you could.
    Last edited by AbnRanger; 08-17-2008 at 07:37 AM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    This is the first time I can ever recall saying anything remotely negative about a contest or entries therein (I felt it was egregious to the other artists enough to speak up instead of playing nice and dignified like). There IS a time, true enough, to show courtesy, sportsmanship and manners...but there are also some rare occasions when it's necessary to ditch the formalities and fake gestures of sportsmanship, and call a spade a spade.
    You're trying to frame it as if people are just taking swipes at everyone's work, like it's Open Season or something. That's just not the case at all.
    We're talking about ONE simple robot. I am not criticizing it on it's own merits, but in relation to the other entries, because the gap was so collosal. And this comes after Larry Shultz and other forum members pleaded with Newtek to stop putting amateur work on display over professional work. Damned if they didn't do it again...maybe just for spite. Nothing personal against DAVE school students or Dominic's robot. He didn't choose his own work over the others...It was Newtek doing it
    You think it's proper to bite your tongue. I think not in this one unique case.
    The fact of the matter is, that this was a contest that was based on scores for each film. You and others keep trying to make it sound like Newtek's favorite was the Robot. No. The judges scores were simply added up based on three criteria. The one with the most points won. That is the most fair and square way to do it I can think of. There was no picking out the robot from the rest.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by frantbk View Post
    If that is the case than why are you still trying to convince people? You are not going to change my view, or many of the other people here who are telling you that NewTek had hurt their reputation with this contest. It doesn't really matter what NewTek said on page one. There actions do not follow their talk, nor did their actions comply with the rules of the contest. NewTek screwed up and NewTek needs to own up to that.
    I am not trying to change your view. I am saying things I think need to be said and pointed out. People can make up their own minds. You have your opinion, I have mine. That is the way it works here.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by cohominous View Post
    I'm outta here.
    Thanks for contributing.

    Comments appreciated

  12. #132
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    The fact of the matter is, that this was a contest that was based on scores for each film. You and others keep trying to make it sound like Newtek's favorite was the Robot. No. The judges scores were simply added up based on three criteria. The one with the most points won. That is the most fair and square way to do it I can think of. There was no picking out the robot from the rest.
    If you will, go check out Vue's recent (Siggraph) contest. Look at the finalists. They probably had similar criteria. They also had a panel of judges from a distinguished list of studio representatives. You could choose anyone of the finalists as first place...there were so many good entries...not unlike Newtek's. But the one thing you'll notice is consistency. All the finalists demonstrate advanced skill level in Vue, as well as composition.
    http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/200

    Now contrast that to Newtek's selection of an entry who's main character and the focus of the animation DOES NOT demonstrate an advanced skill level in Lighwave. And they chose it over other entries that did a remarkable job of demonstrating advanced skill (throughout the entire animation).

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    If you will, go check out Vue's recent (Siggraph) contest. Look at the finalists. They probably had similar criteria. They also had a panel of judges from a distinguished list of studio representatives. You could choose anyone of the finalists as first place...there were so many good entries...not unlike Newtek's. But the one thing you'll notice is consistency. All the finalists demonstrate advanced skill level in Vue, as well as composition.
    http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/200

    Now contrast that to Newtek's selection of an entry who's main character and the focus of the animation DOES NOT demonstrate an advanced skill level in Lighwave. And they chose it over other entries that did a remarkable job of demonstrating advanced skill (throughout the entire animation).
    Completely irrelevant to site another contest or your further speculations on their judging practices which again you don't actually have any facts on.

    The entries in this contest where the best that this community could produce in the time given. That has nothing to do with Newtek choosing anything.

    They put on a contest, people entered, those that scored the highest won. Simple.

    And if your point is more to the fact that you think LW independent artists don't produce good work in a short time frame which can be the only point left since, this is what we did. No one else to blame there. Then I would kindly suggest that you take that argument to another thread. It is completely irrelevant to this contest and the winners IMHO.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 08-17-2008 at 08:12 AM.

  14. #134
    If it were me doing the marketing at Newtek I would be making it very well known that Lightwave was used on The Dark Knight for modeling certain scenes. They should have done a promo video similair to how they did one for 300 and maybe included other high profile projects if the Dark Knight didnt have enough content. I realise that it's not always easy to get somthing like this together but if they can it's worth it. These promo vids shold be shown at Siggraph to show people some of the high profile movies Lightwave has been used on. I think Lightwave still has lots going for it but the marketing strategy seems to be inconsistant and could be much better. Newtek can't really do much against competitors like XSI but it's still in head to head competition with programs like C4D and Modo.

    Lightwave 10 will need to be a very impressive fresh release consistant and flowing throughout wich version 9 series is currently not in many areas. Version 9 series has many impressive technologies but the program is very fractured with many technologies and features left incomplete especially when compared to a very well thought out program like Modo. If Lightwave 10 isn't polished nice and shiny then I'm not sure what the future may hold.
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  15. #135
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Completely irrelevant to site another contest or your further speculations on their judging practices which again you don't actually have any facts on.

    The entries in this contest where the best that this community could produce in the time given. That has nothing to do with Newtek choosing anything.

    They put on a contest, people entered, those that scored the highest won. Simple.
    How is it not relevant? The scoring is just as subjective as any other contest. If an entrant's work is much more professional than another's, that takes a back seat to criteria as subjective as "what's interesting?" Please, you're making no sense here, whatsoever.

    Quote:
    Winners will be announced at SIGGRAPH 2008 for the most visually stunning, original work that illustrates the power of LightWave right out of the box. We know that creating eye-candy is a high-calorie endeavor, so here’s how we’re going to sweeten the deal:
    Last edited by AbnRanger; 08-17-2008 at 08:17 AM.

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