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  1. #1
    Registered User Eugeny's Avatar
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    Some after thoughts

    Well i'm just wanted to say some contest after thoughts
    Next time then u guys make contest - be consistent and follow your own rules !
    And the rules was:
    The contest theme is about high-energy, action-packed video that defines "Model, Animate and Render" - We want you, the artist, to have as much artistic freedom as possible; however, we still need to define the rules for this contest:

    * Multiple entries per person are accepted. Each entry requires you to fill out the entry form.
    * Animations must be submitted as QuickTime animations in HD resolution (1280x720) using the following recommendations:
    - Video Length: up to 15 sec.
    - Compression: Quicktime H.264 codec
    - Max file size: 150 MB
    - up to 30 frames per sec.
    * The animation must be 100% LightWave models, rigging and renders only. You can use any non-commercial, freely available plugin.
    * Post-production outside of LightWave is limited to color correction, transitions, time stretching.
    * Use of audio will not be considered when judging, However, feel free to add voice-over for character animation/lip sync or sound FX.
    * No derogatory content will be tolerated. All video files submitted must be in good taste.
    * Winners must sign a release that the animation is their original work, and is in no way derived or copied from any other person or source.


    Nearly all of the winners (except the first price) was not standing on the criteria of these rules:

    2nd price - really impressive piеse of work (honestly i will get the first price for this one) but it's not rendered in HD, this is why it's arranged like this , and rendering to HD was one of the major factors ! That's why u guys get so little amount of entries (I'm assuming this by that fact that u include 3 from my 4 submissions, and amount of flying logos presented on reel). And did u guys honestly believe that this piece of work not used compositing ?

    3d price - it's a completed movie 2.30 min long! Of cause it's mach easier to tell a story with something completed, and if u judge the originality of the idea - it's mach easier to pick this piece of work there the whole idea is understood then say the rabbit animation (which is mach better from the CA animation point of view but was not completed as the full story). Damn, one of my entries (the lighting robots) is the complete movie 3 min long. If i was know that u guys accept full length movies and stuff that not rendered in HD i was able to blow your server with entries !

    4d price - are u guys believe that this was done by simple pressing F9 ? And any compositing not used ? Or u believe that some one used LW as the compositing tool to arrange this ? I hope author will submit the scene assets to be included on the next content CD, just to check that 100 % of lightwave was used.

    Now for the first price ... I'm speechless ... Congrats for the winner, enjoy your prices.


    Now i understand why LW in the so deep **** ... If marketing team prefer to show something like this on the header of the LW web site, I'm speechless ...

    Personally I'm disappointed. Not only by that fact that I'm lose this contest but more by that fact that my work loose to some work that even not on pair to my and other works.

  2. #2
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    Oh. c'mon.

  3. #3
    Well, I have to agree. If Newtek is going to set up a contest with rules, I don't see how fair it is to let someone win that did not adhere to the rules. Had I submitted an entry, I would feel this way too.
    The contest entry was supposed to be under 15 seconds in length, so why do we have an entry that is over a few minutes long coming in third? I'd also be inclined to agree that it is unlikely that compositing was not used, especially on the second entry.
    I'm also wondering if the first prize went to the one that was just pure Lightwave marketing. If I thought it would have increased my chances, I would put the Lightwave Logo all over the place as well.
    Last edited by hrgiger; 08-13-2008 at 07:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Super Member DBMiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Well, I have to agree. If Newtek is going to set up a contest with rules, I don't see how fair it is to let someone win that did not adhere to the rules. Had I submitted an entry, I would feel this way too.
    The contest entry was supposed to be under 15 seconds in length, so why do we have an entry that is over a few minutes long coming in third? I'd also be inclined to agree that it is unlikely that compositing was not used, especially on the second entry.
    I'm also wondering if the first prize went to the one that was just pure Lightwave marketing. If I thought it would have increased my chances, I would put the Lightwave Logo all over the place as well.
    I agree as well. While I knew I would not be in the running, I did keep to the rules. It's really not fair if the winners did not. Perhaps there really weren't many really good entries and they took what they could get, but, I don't think it's sour grapes to notice the rule stretching. DBM.

  5. #5
    Thank you for expressing your concern, I appreciate it, and hopefully by answering this post, we may be able to clear up any questions.

    First off I would like to personally say not only did I enjoy watching The w.i.p. threads, I also enjoyed seeing the final animations. Some of them are simply steller, considering the very short time frame, and limited 3rd party plugin use. This really shows the true power of what can be done with LightWave in a tight deadline situation.

    The contest was essentially to add some interactivity to the user forums, generate some future content and to show off what can be done in a tight deadline.

    I would like to take a second to explain exactly how the judging was done. I don't think it really needs to be justified, as the judges decisions are final. However, personally, I believe that it would be important for some to understand the process.

    The judging was based off of the following criteria:
    Originality / Creativity - 50%
    Cinematography / Direction - 35%
    Quality of assets - 15%

    We basically wanted to see originality over quality of assets for this particular contest. The reason for this, as stated, was the possibility to include such files in the future as content, and we cannot, unfortunately, risk the chance of copyright infringement.

    Each item was based on a scale from 1 to 10 (10 being best). The video clips were looped and the judges scored it based on each instance of the criteria. Once they scored based on "Originality / Creativity", they then moved on to score it based on "Cinematography / Direction" .. then on to quality of assets. Once this process was complete, the numbers were added and checked by several other people to ensure they were correct. This is how we arrived at the final 4.

    I can say, it was real close between several of the entries towards the end.

    Along the way, there were some questions as to weather some things were created in LightWave or not. We anticipated this, and as such, had asked the author to email the files so we may take a peek. An example would be the 4th runner up, titled "Black Snow" - The assets were received and checked to be consistent.






    Some entries included a long version of the actual entry, Some included the content WITH the entry, and some submitted multiple entries. It was really interesting to see all the entries come in and what people are doing with LightWave and how they achieve certain things using the base package.

    Off the record, I will say there were some outstanding entries, and I have my personal favorites, that, unfortunately did not make it. This doesn't mean they are no good. On the contrary, it just simply means that based on the criteria to judge by, some fit the bill well.

    I hope that helps clear things up for anyone reading this.
    Andrew with a [B]Y[/B]
    Senior Creative Artist, Marketing
    [url]http://www.newtek.com[/url]
    Skype: denali5x
    ----
    [URL="http://www.greenkiwi.co.nz/footprints/mongolia/ghengis_history.htm"]Genghis Khan[/URL]

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by andrew_y View Post
    and as such, had asked the author to email the files so we may take a peek. An example would be the 4th runner up, titled "Black Snow" - The assets were received and checked to be consistent.

    to be clear, i think what was meant was not necessarily if LW was used. rather, it was whether or any non-LW post-processing was used.

    as for me, i think 4th *may* have had post-processing, but i find it well within the realm of possibility that it was straight LW, especially after threads such as this:

    http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33682
    "The hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men, and His compulsion is our liberation." - C.S. Lewis


  7. #7
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    I agree... im highly suspicious that 2nd place used no external polish/compositing... the limitations listed in the rules was one of the things that made me not want to bother entering.
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  8. #8
    We've got it simple. Jim_C's Avatar
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    It's the Baba Booey Song Parody contest all over again...

  9. #9
    Registered User Eugeny's Avatar
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    Andrew u explained how it's was judged not why some of them was accepted ... And to be honest extending dead line to 25 hours was also not so fair move.

  10. #10
    Did the 2 minute and 30 second winner also have an entry that was under 15 seconds? You said that some people included a longer version of their entry. If so, why isn't the actual entry shown on the winners page? It would be nice to see what they're actually winning for because based on the criteria of the contest, I don't see how the longer one is relevant.

  11. #11
    ZBrusher! CMT's Avatar
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    Personally, I thought the first place winner was the best of the 4 they picked, so I have no problem there. I saw some cool entrees in the demo reel, but didn't get to see the whole 15 seconds of most of them.

    Extending the deadline 25 hours made it unfair why? As I understood it, it was to make sure that those who were having problems uploading actually had the time to finish their upload.

    And why would Newtek need to explain their reasons for liking one entry over the other (assuming criteria being met for all entrees)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugeny View Post
    Personally I'm disappointed. Not only by that fact that I'm lose this contest but more by that fact that my work loose to some work that even not on pair to my and other works.
    You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree that the winners didn't deserve it. Originality was 50% of the criteria and I thought 3 of the 4 winners (not second place) was the most creative of what I saw on the demo reel. But that's a bit subjective.
    Christopher Tackett
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  12. #12
    Meatwad get the honeys G meathead's Avatar
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    Geez, so much for good sportmanship ?!?!?


    Congrats to the winners! They are all great!
    Medical Illustrator to the Stars!

  13. #13
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    Geez, so much for good sportmanship ?!?!?


    Congrats to the winners! They are all great!
    If you're competing in a sporting event and one of your opponents clearly breaks a rule, it's poor sportmanship to go to the referee about it? I see it every Sunday, watching football...baseball, basketbll, etc.

    Personally I thought Eugeny's was certainly deserving of a top 2 or 3. He demonstrated expert modeling skills (which the first prize certainly did not). Expert lighting, use of volumetrics (for the thick fog), camera angles, etc.
    It looked more like something you'd see in a game cinematic or feature film (I'm sure he would've polished it up more if that is what it was used for). Now contrast that to the winning entry (something you'd expect in a student reel), and I'd be a bit ticked off too. What was the appeal?...because the robot piece was kind of cute, with some shiny graphics?

    It certainly didn't meet the mission statement for the contest as well as some of the others did...that is to demonstrate what LW is capable of. The first place entry DID NOT prove to anyone the level of professional work LW is capable of. To that end, the second place and Eugeny's entry did a much better job of demonstrating that, as well as the others. But coming from a company that had a purple, green, brown, and grey UI color scheme up to LW 7.5, I'm reminded of how little taste they seem to have, in the first place.

    Personally, I thought the winner would've been more like a 5th place or lower, with such a primitive robot used. The rest of the set was cool...just would've demonstrated more craft with a better model...humanoid robot, IMHO. That robot (not the rest of the scene) looked like something a first year student would submit in their 2nd or 3rd week. This is what Larry (SplineGod), Stooch and others have been talking about when stating that Newtek has not been putting their best material on display.

    I liked the 2nd place much better than the rest, but it appeared to me that it must have been something they already had done before the contest, and just saw the contest as an opportunity.

    Eugeny has a very valid point. Rules are rules. The recent Vue 5 competition had a hard deadline and had some rules I wish I could've broken, to sweeten up or improve the final shot...but they stuck to their rules. So should Newtek.
    Last edited by AbnRanger; 08-15-2008 at 03:03 PM.

  14. #14
    How Old? Really? Aww Heck colkai's Avatar
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    Well i for one am amazed that the one that looked like it had been heavily processed was in fact "in the box" - shows that sometimes, even those using LW can be fooled.
    Congrats to those who got in.

    Still, I do think some of the complaints are valid, but at the end of the day, Newtek have made their choices and have their reasons, even if some don't agree with them. I personally don't have a problem, s'all good - more to the point, it shows what can be done quickly, outside of "big studios" with LW - which has always been a strong point for it.
    Too old to die young.

  15. #15
    Registered User Eugeny's Avatar
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    To CMT: I don't say they not deserve it (and my quoted words are about fist place entry), i asked why some of them was accepted despite that fact that they did not adhere to the rules (not rendered to HD, compositing and longer then 15 second).
    I'm not asking NewTek to explain why they asked one other the others as Andrew said "I don't think it really needs to be justified, as the judges decisions are final", and OK with it.

    Expanding dead line was getting extra hours of rendering for some one who don't had a time to finish it at time. Simple as that. Dead line is the dead line, if u can't stand it at time u out of the game. As for the uploading - it's pretty simple to see on server log files if some one really was stacked with traffic and allow him extra hours to upload. (As for me - i needed to delete one shot completely to upload my entry at time and then, after expanding dead line, i realized that some of the people that missed dead line are uploading, so i decided to up my almost full render, luckily i didn't cancel it).

    And enough of this, done that is done, 3 from my 4 entries are included and showed at Siggraph, so thanx for that, just for the future contests NewTeck guys - pleas follow your own rules.
    Last edited by Eugeny; 08-13-2008 at 12:04 PM.

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