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Thread: Some after thoughts

  1. #76
    Originally Posted by Surrealist.

    How would you like it if the NT marketing team said, well we'll have them subbit what they want but we'll pick the coolest sexiest one for siggy because we don't want to look uncool. Then we'll tell everybody it was the winner. How lame would that be?
    Matter of fact I think they should open up the rules a lil more and blatantly called the contest: BEST and "KEWL" Animation Contest, they can use Combustion & After Effects, thye got 4 months and add a seat of Zbrush to a seat of Lightwave, Sasquatch or Fprime.

    Muthaf**kas would come out of the woodworks.
    CGtalk does it and its very effective.


    Humble Opinion anyway.


    I can see some reading this ..going well you just saying that because you like that "kewl" style and I would answer..and so does the all the 16-28 year olds demographic who are deciding to go to college, go see Iron Man, Batman II, Hulk, Hellboy and buy PS3-Xbox en mass.
    Last edited by Julez4001; 08-16-2008 at 02:51 PM.

  2. #77
    Yeah I agree. If you want to make it a cool contest. Make it so. Very good point. I just mean having that as a hidden agenda.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 08-16-2008 at 02:56 PM.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    I won't speak for anyone else, but I would have liked that. Point is, when I am looking at software, I want to see the coolest sexiest animation. I want to be seduced.

    Yes, it was a contest. But I think it would be a mistake to think it was only for us. It's certainly no coincidence that Newtek made the deadline right before Siggraph. To say that it was merely a contest for us and to showcase us artists was Newteks primary goal is being naive. It was a pure marketing campaign to generate new material to show off at Siggraph. As they were giving prizes, I don't think anyone cared for the why. But hey, if that's what they want to show, it's their company. Whatever. Just don't argue the fact that some of us might have differing opinions about it.
    I never said it was only for us. I said it was for us. It was our contest that NT also got something from in the way of assets and a demo of what can be done in a short time. It was a win win. And I am well aware that it was for Sigraph. They said so in the beginning if I remember. That was part of my whole point. Regardless of why they did it, we got something out of it.

    As to the marketing angle I can not even comment I guess because it is not my field. I don't work at Newtek, I don't see the numbers.

    I just think for us, it was cool. They asked us to put 15 seconds of our best work forward in a short period of time.

    If that failed and NT believed in us as a marketing angle, then we failed NT not the other way around.

  4. #79
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    I dont have a problem with the contest or the winners.
    Its a matter of showing what is appropriate in the proper venue.
    There used to be something called the Wavey awards which was the proper venue to show off material like this.
    Siggraph is a place to show off professional work at a level that will convince people that you have a serious app that does serious work and get you to buy that app.

    Its like a demo reel. You dont show anything that makes you look weak. We all know that. Siggraph is Newteks time to show the absolute BEST work AND DEMONSTRATIONS of LW. The cartoony stuff or DAVE school student work is NOT what should be shown at siggraph. If you dont think is has an effect on what people buy then read this. A friend of my wifes husband was sent to siggraph by the studio he works out to scope out some other 3d apps.
    This is what she told my wife:
    Decided to hit Siggraph 2008 today with A. He's all geeky when it comes to nerd expos. We stopped by one of the bigger booths on the floor, Newtek Inc who make a 3D software. We sat in the back for a while watching a guy demo. Looked like Dr. Suess crap. He didn't tell me anything of substinance and to be quite honest, we walked away unsold on that particular software based on what he was showing. Needless to say, when we sat down in the audience we were around 40 strong, by the time his show was over there were around 6 of us.
    What was awesome was Sony giving away PSP Lites by dropping your business card into a bowl. They gave away 12 in the 2 hours we were there.
    I did not win one.

    As I said in the other thread, her husband ended up purchasing 4 seats of C4D.
    Many others I know who went by Newteks booth again were embarresed by the demos just like last year. We all scratch our heads because this is how they do it every year. Last year I went with some coworkers who were unfamiliar with LW to newteks booth. They were confused as to why Newtek was showing off the lame cartoony stuff instead of the kind of things we were doing at work.

  5. #80
    We-Co® Filmz We-Co's Avatar
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    Wow, yes they should obey the rules, but now your just sounding like babies and haters.
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  6. #81
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SplineGod View Post
    ...Many others I know who went by Newteks booth again were embarresed by the demos just like last year. We all scratch our heads because this is how they do it every year. Last year I went with some coworkers who were unfamiliar with LW to newteks booth. They were confused as to why Newtek was showing off the lame cartoony stuff instead of the kind of things we were doing at work.
    It is true. I see that too.

    One reason I don't go to many shows anymore is because I am tired of seeing cool stuff that my employer won't buy.
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  7. #82
    Pancakes! IMI's Avatar
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    ...Dr. Suess crap...
    ...He didn't tell me anything of substinance...
    ...lame cartoony stuff...
    "substinance"?

    Well, it sounds as if the "lame cartoony stuff" such as the "Dr. Suess crap" wouldn't have been appreciated even if it was the best lame cartoony crap created in the history of the world, and anything anyone had to say about it would have been even far less than unsubstitantialistic.

    Every time I ask this question here, nobody answers: Do we know for sure NT wants LW to be Maya, max, XSI... ? Houdini, Blender, m***?
    Perhaps they're proud of their lame cartoony stuff. There is at least a pretty good market for it, and alot of people doing it.

    Of course, I'm now reminded of what shrox here recently said about his achievements in the game design world with LW going largely ignored by NT (which is tragic). Maybe it's time for NT to find a niche and stick with it.
    Last edited by IMI; 08-16-2008 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #83
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    That's already been covered. What they decided to show in the final production has little to do with the actual contest or entries. That was the presentation. You can say they only should have showed the 15 second version. Ok fine. But that is just the presentation. Has nothing to do with the actual entry and what was judged. They had the longer piece to show, they made the call. You can't then turn that into some kind of argument that they broke the rules. The rules were to do with the entries not with what would be shown. And again that was already addressed on the first page by NT.

    EDIT: It did cause some confusion, yes. But it was addressed and I really don't know why they did it. But it is their contest they are paying for the time at Siggraph. They made the call based on what they thought was best.
    What you are forgeting here is that a 2.5 min entry has the potential to impress judges more (than its 15 sec counterparts) even if NT claims they only judged the first 15 sec.
    Yeah, Right?...and you believe that? You're telling me that they cut it off after 15 sec and refused to watch the rest, as to remain impartial. I've got a bridge in the middle of the Atlantic ocean to sell you, then.

    I'm sure they watched it in its entirety (and whether they admit it or not), and it made some impression on them...that wouldn't have been made otherwise. And why even submit something so lengthy when the contest rules CLEARLY stated it was to be limited to 15 sec. That tells me that they already had the project in their back pocket before the contest ever came up.

    For what it's worth, I doubt the second entry used Poser models...it didn't look like it to me. I was impressed with the work, myself and thought either it or Eugeny's project deserved first place, IMHO.

  9. #84
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    It was a contest people!

    Or has anyone forgotten that?

    The Robot won. You don't like that create your own sexy animation with fur and hair and see if that makes number one. Then we can all complain about how LW isn't really about the less than stellar hair plugin they added in 9.5. Or make your cloth animation win and we can all complain about the fact that we ought not to be promoting last decades cloth simulations. Take your pick.

    It was a contest. There was no control over the content other than what was submitted. That is up to us.

    The robot was not a marketing decision by Newtek. Sure wish you'd get it straight about that. They did the fair thing, the thing you'd expect a company with some dignity to do and that was actually rate each one on specific points, tally it up and give it to the winner.

    How would you like it if the NT marketing team said, well we'll have them subbit what they want but we'll pick the coolest sexiest one for siggy because we don't want to look uncool. Then we'll tell everybody it was the winner. How lame would that be?

    And this whole thing about "If I saw the robot animation...." Is ludicrous. Nobody looks at that and says, "Oh gee, look at the best LW can do. Wow! I'll take it."

    No. Most people look at it and chuckle. See it for what it was as a fun animation that for what it was, was done well. And that it was done quickly and by a guy who had relatively little experience with LW was a plus. And they look at all the animations and see the variety of things created. That is what they look at.

    Frankly I found it completely refreshing. Everybody is trying to be so f'n serious and sexy with all the cool animation and lighting and all of this stuff. (self included here now)

    Then the thing that comes along and wins is a funny little flippant robot animation.

    I thought that was so cool. I really did.
    Again, the entire theme for the contest goes hand in hand with Newtek's marketing purposes...that is to promote "What LW can do in the hands of a talented Artist."
    That's the mission statment for both the contest, and for Newtek marketing in general. So, when NT chooses a winner, they are choosing the entry THAT BEST FITS THE MISSION STATEMENT...lookie, lookie everbody...here's what you can do if you buy a seat of Lighwave!!!
    You're saying the contest has nothing to do with marketing...Wha'? Go 'git yourself a cup of coffee and come back to the discussion

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by IMI View Post
    "substinance"?

    Well, it sounds as if the "lame cartoony stuff" such as the "Dr. Suess crap" wouldn't have been appreciated even if it was the best lame cartoony crap created in the history of the world, and anything anyone had to say about it would have been even far less than unsubstitantialistic.

    (which is tragic). Maybe it's time for NT to find a niche and stick with it.

    I think a lot of folks are missing the point time and time again.
    LIGHTWAVE ALREADY HAS THE "best lame cartoony crap created in the history of the world" AWARD ... its has gutted the galleries and siggraph shows to death. It ain't like its a lack in their tool chest. Its on T-shirts.

    I would like one Siggraph where it was nothing but film, tv and game sequences all three floor days. I tell yah...when Modo gets all animation and particle system in it, Brad gonna go all marketting hard-core gamer while Newtek will be competing with BIG BUNNY "free app" audience.

  11. #86
    Registered User AbnRanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We-Co View Post
    Wow, yes they should obey the rules, but now your just sounding like babies and haters.
    What does the title of the thread say? It is what it is...some after thoughts. I'm not sure what it's like where you live, but America is a free country...free to opinionate...to agree and to disagree. Do we need to check with you first before doing so?

  12. #87
    We-Co® Filmz We-Co's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    What does the title of the thread say? It is what it is...some after thoughts. I'm not sure what it's like where you live, but America is a free country...free to opinionate...to agree and to disagree. Do we need to check with you first before doing so?
    Nobody loves America more than me, I'm just saying this conversation got pointless when everybody knew that NewTek is not going to change the decision whether or not they followed the rules. Your and my opinion doesn't matter at this point, or does it?!?!
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  13. #88
    Pancakes! IMI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbnRanger View Post
    Again, the entire theme for the contest goes hand in hand with Newtek's marketing purposes...that is to promote "What LW can do in the hands of a talented Artist."
    That's the mission statment for both the contest, and for Newtek marketing in general. So, when NT chooses a winner, they are choosing the entry THAT BEST FITS THE MISSION STATEMENT...lookie, lookie everbody...here's what you can do if you buy a seat of Lighwave!!!
    You're saying the contest has nothing to do with marketing...Wha'? Go 'git yourself a cup of coffee and come back to the discussion
    It wouldn't be wrong to say that robot animation was "What LW can do in the hands of a talented Artist.". It may not have conformed to alot of people's idea of 3D done by talented people, many of whom probably equate "good" 3D animation as the best impersonation of reality as possible.
    Well, not only that, but it can be done with LW... by those who choose to go that route.

    Well, I'd just like to take this opportunity to stick up for Robot Guy. I thought it was cool, as I thought ALL the winners and demo reel animations were pretty well done. Was it the best possible, was it the best submitted? That's purely subjective, but it did in fact win.
    Jeez, I would hate to be him and have to read through all this. He's doing an admirable job of biting his tongue, I'd say, considering all the vitriol being tossed his way. It's not like he himself posted the video and said "Look what I did - the greatest LW animation ever!", which would open him up for this kind of abuse.
    I would hope that professional adults could be a little more restrained with their unsolicited criticisms. Unless you feel personally slighted, what does it matter, anyway, who won? And if so, your problem is with NT, not with another member. IMO, it would probably be a little more professional and adult to keep the personal, unsolicited comments out of it.

    Rock on, Robot dude! You won the contest, and you had your work highlighted at SIGGRAPH. Regardless of what anyone thinks about it here, it'll look good on your resume. And, you'll only improve in the future. I suspect in the end that counts for more.

  14. #89
    Pancakes! IMI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julez4001 View Post

    I would like one Siggraph where it was nothing but film, tv and game sequences all three floor days. I tell yah...when Modo gets all animation and particle system in it, Brad gonna go all marketting hard-core gamer while Newtek will be competing with BIG BUNNY "free app" audience.
    Oh, I agree, and for that matter, I'm a proud modo user and actually a closet modo fan. Well, I guess not anymore.
    I'm only defending NT's right to be what they want to be. I have no personal stake in either their success or their failure, but you can drive yourself crazy really wanting something from someone, while they consistently fail to deliver. At that point it's time to move on, not to try to recreate them in your image.

  15. #90
    Pancakes! IMI's Avatar
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    AbnRanger, BTW, even though I quoted you above, I wasn't saying you are being disrespectful or insulting the winner.
    I just went off on a tangent there, and I quoted you just to disagree with the part about it not having conformed to their purpose.

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