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Thread: Can we unlock things?

  1. #16
    It's ALL about the light Paul Lara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnCommonGrafx
    It seems that those who speak not-so-glowingly of the situation are shouted down and asked to leave our midst.
    ::whispering::
    I have to disagree with this characterization, Robert.
    The NewTek Forums are some of the most open, most honest corporate venues I have ever seen. We allow comments that are quite critical of NewTek, and neither delete the comments nor limit the messenger's ability to express them.

    As for the subject of this thread, locking clips on the timeline, Yes it is certainly possible, but that time has to be weighed against all other requests. Sometimes compelling improvements, such as adding Hi Def or XML support rise to the top.

    Thank you Ivan for your passion and for your persistence. You have an advocate inside NewTek for this necessary feature.
    Don't stream it - TriCast it!

  2. #17
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    Paul thats been one of the most refreshing, and fantastic replies from
    a NewTek person that I have heard in a LOOONG time.

    I had a lot more but it would be better said over a beer than
    on the net. Cmon down to Chicago so we can grab a cold one
    together. God knows I seriously need a night out.

    Bob
    bobt_at_bobfx_com
    www.bobfx.com
    Bob Tasa

  3. #18
    It's ALL about the light Paul Lara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobt
    I had a lot more but it would be better said over a beer than
    on the net. Cmon down to Chicago so we can grab a cold one
    together. God knows I seriously need a night out.
    The first couple beers are on me Bob!
    Don't stream it - TriCast it!

  4. #19
    Ahh, but Paul, I wasn't speaking of NewTek.
    {Said in a hush}

    I was speaking of users and dealers.
    {Said in an outdoor voice -- Loudly}

    I have to concur that indeed you guys do let these discussions continue. And that, Sir, is most appreciated.

    And no argument that some of the improvements you speak of are highly desired. Yet, these issues seem to come up every month as to needs; only recently have some of the HiDef capabilities been possible while the issues at hand remain.

    Great to have a Brave Soul within state that they advocate for such a thing as opposed to just shooting it down because of... various reasons. Thanks for that.

  5. #20
    VT5 USER Rich Deustachio's Avatar
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    I think some of the frustration come in when NewTek adds new features that have recently been requested, but seem to ignore many that have been asked for since VT2.

    Over a year ago NewTek did a poll on what features users wanted more or less. Although I though the poll was limited and did not include many long time requested items, it was at least a show of concern for what users need or want.

    Maybe it is time for an organized list of requests and a poll to show which ones are more popular. As long as the poll includes most of the popular requested items it will be informative.
    Dynamic Video Productions
    Mount Laurel NJ

  6. #21
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    Your posts sure make you sound pissed off at the world.
    Nah, there would be cursing if that were the case. I am occasionally annoyed/disappointed. Here is why:

    Although no one here actually says this and I really hand it to Bob for sticking with Newtek and the users. I feel that the focus of development may have taken a turn from "what people want" to "what did Bob come up with". I'm not saying that their mission statement has changed but putting Bob out of business seems like it has moved up the list in priorities over user's functionality. Look at the list of what has not made it into SE. Now look at what has. Auto White Balance, doesn't Bob have a plugin? Marker export, doesn't Bob have a plugin? Three Wheel Color, not only does Bob have a plugin but at least one person that uses it said that it is more powerful than the one that SE comes with. Read this thread Now let's move on to MPeg2 encoding. TMPG has been used by VT users for some time now yet Newtek wants to put in their own. Great! When everything else is done, save us $25. Till then I didn't hear anyone complaining. Oh, you say TMPG is to hard? Have you looked at the settings for the Newtek encoder?? What about the live side? Doesn't Bob have 3rd Channel? Isn't that supposed to be a feature of VT5 now?

    Now look around. When SE came out I was one of the few that complained. Now that the light is dawning on others that SE will be the editor for VT5 others are starting to question why a feature list over six years old is going untouched. Go to many of the other forums and they are all but vacant and much of the discussion is about what other NLEs offer. I ran the VT User Group in Minneapolis every month for six years and I think October will be the last month I will do it. Many of the users in the group have gone to Premiere/FCP/Pinnacle and as much as I hate change I needed to go with FCP because someone down there really gets it. At least when they decide to go after a third party product they have the decency to buy them out AND improve it.

    Where are all the users that defended Newtek? Remember them? Now most of the people saying "it's not so bad" are dealers. What happened to the users that were shouting how great it is??

    Ivan

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by UnCommonGrafx
    Ahh, but Paul, I wasn't speaking of NewTek.
    {Said in a hush}

    I was speaking of users and dealers.
    {Said in an outdoor voice -- Loudly}

    I can confirm this. I was publicly asked to leave the VTNT mailing list by
    a certain ah-hem, "Dealer" when I said that Aura wasn't that special and that
    even D'Fusion could achieve "video painting" effects with a little work. I
    was even very respectful and polite the whole time too.

    I know dealers who act up and trash others like that don't represent NewTek
    though and so I brushed it off like so many dead fly-wings. (Looks interesting
    at first but upon closer examination are completely useless.)

    BTW, I was working for NewTek at the time so it was a case of a dealer asking
    an employee to leave. Kinda strange. I didn't think much of it at the time but
    I watched the same guy "flex" at a few other folks (users) later as well...
    Last edited by Tesselator; 09-21-2007 at 08:52 PM.

  8. #23
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan
    Nah, there would be cursing if that were the case. I am occasionally annoyed/disappointed. Here is why:

    Although no one here actually says this and I really hand it to Bob for sticking with Newtek and the users. I feel that the focus of development may have taken a turn from "what people want" to "what did Bob come up with". I'm not saying that their mission statement has changed but putting Bob out of business seems like it has moved up the list in priorities over user's functionality. Look at the list of what has not made it into SE. Now look at what has. Auto White Balance, doesn't Bob have a plugin? Marker export, doesn't Bob have a plugin? Three Wheel Color, not only does Bob have a plugin but at least one person that uses it said that it is more powerful than the one that SE comes with. Read this thread Now let's move on to MPeg2 encoding. TMPG has been used by VT users for some time now yet Newtek wants to put in their own. Great! When everything else is done, save us $25. Till then I didn't hear anyone complaining. Oh, you say TMPG is to hard? Have you looked at the settings for the Newtek encoder?? What about the live side? Doesn't Bob have 3rd Channel? Isn't that supposed to be a feature of VT5 now?
    Ivan, you are saying things that are so far from the truth.

    I have been to NewTek and no where did I see meetings being held on how to bury Bob. Give me a break. Do you really think that? Can only Bob come up with an idea to put in a product? Did you stop and think that maybe just MAYBE NewTek was already working on a similar feature before Bob came out with his?? Maybe NewTek had more features they were implementing for an update so they didn't release just one plugin like Bob can.

    As far as TMPG issues, I can not count the times I have had clients with issues with Tmpg. Not only was it a training nightmare but I had to say "Ok now we will go into this other program to do an MPEG file conversion". I would get blank stares. In SE we simply show them where to do it INSIDE the same program they are editing with... Just like Vegas, FCP, or Adobe. This is a feature MANY of my users have asked for. NewTek delivered. John Perkins did a fantastic job setting up the presets so a user WOULD NOT have to dig around to get the best settings.

    You ask what about the live side... Yes Bob has 3rd Channel but that is NO where near the same as what is in the LiveSet feature set. To maybe the untrained person they may be similar but in use they are not similar at all. Using Bob's plugin is no where as easy to use as the LiveSet technology. There again LiveSet is something that users requested and NewTek delivered. Yes they did request the ability to easily do Virtual Sets. Look in the archives here if you doubt me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan
    At least when they decide to go after a third party product they have the decency to buy them out AND improve it.
    I am not at liberty to say publicly what I know for a fact, but you need to ask Bob the whole story about buying out and offers that were given. Apparently you do not know the whole story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan
    Now most of the people saying "it's not so bad" are dealers. What happened to the users that were shouting how great it is??
    I take such offense to that statement. I am not only a dealer but I am a USER in every way possible.
    Yes, I edit.
    Yes, I design graphics.
    Yes, I produce events for 10's of thousands of people.
    Yes, I proudly sell NewTek products besides many, many, many other lines.

    Just because I am dealer does not make me not count. I was a user well before I became a dealer for NewTek.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

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  9. #24
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIZAZZ
    As far as TMPG issues, I can not count the times I have had clients with issues with Tmpg. Not only was it a training nightmare but I had to say "Ok now we will go into this other program to do an MPEG file conversion". I would get blank stares. In SE we simply show them where to do it INSIDE the same program they are editing with... Just like Vegas, FCP, or Adobe. This is a feature MANY of my users have asked for. NewTek delivered. John Perkins did a fantastic job setting up the presets so a user WOULD NOT have to dig around to get the best settings.
    I have to, with respect, comment on this.

    For people who take the time to learn TMPGEnc properly, they get quality out of it that they simply can not get out of SpeedEDIT's built-in encoder. MPEG-2 encoding is more an art than a science, but it can be learned. Granted, I am sure there are a good chuck of people that want presets and don't take the time to learn the magic behind the curtain. They miss out on the superior quality they could have, but it is certainly their choice. And definately nothing in this against your training, Jef, it's not an easy program to learn for anyone, I'm not claiming it is.

    And I agree, Newtek certainly did need to put a native MPEG-2 encoder in SpeedEDIT. It's just a question of can it be as good as a mature application that is dedicated only to encoding? Even Newtek has posted before that that shouldn't be expected with just their first crack at it. Can it get better? Sure it can, but I'm talking about right now.

    There is also the issue that was pointed out that if you think the controls in TMPGEnc are complicated, try messing with and understanding the controls in the SpeedEDIT encoder... Beyond the presets.

    Please take a look at my white paper on the subject that I posted in the appropriate SpeedEDIT forum. It is complete with not only my subjective evaluations, but also with the objective evalutation of actual waveform monitors and render timings.

    The native SpeedEDIT MPEG-2 encoder simply doesn't cut it for me currently in terms of speed or quality, versus what one can do from SpeedEDIT to TMPGEnc, even without a plug-in. If I can get quicker and higher quality by going outside my NLE, I will. I do the same with Vegas 7, in fact.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  10. #25
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    Did you stop and think that maybe just MAYBE NewTek was already working on a similar feature before Bob came out with his??
    Good point, then why would they not tell him so he doesn't waste his time. They certainly knew he was working on these things. Also how is it he can get this done on the train to and from work before they think to mention that they are working on it? AND why not leverage his skill rather than duplicate it. As I mentioned to someone at Newtek, Ford does not take guys off the assembly line who are installing the engine because they suddenly want to make tires. They get the tires from someone else and work on the rest.

    Maybe ask yourself about the Chapter Markers plugin. I don't recall this taking Bob very long to complete and it was not even mentioned when SE first shipped. Now it's in there, how long did they need to work on it? Did they think of this before Bob shipped his back in VT4 and just forget to include it in SE when it first shipped? Even if they did, why not take it off the list and add in the next thing, are they that inflexible or are they just unaware of what is available for their product? If that is the case let me help, here are some links: BobFX YoungMonkey Pizazz (Yes, I added your site, no sense that they start making things you've already done.)

    Sorry if I seemed to imply that it was a big conspiracy but given that there is so much that only they can do why duplicate effort?? With Bob they had someone that they were not paying creating modules that improved the value of their product!! How much better deal can you get?? Why not use that?? We keep getting told that they don't have unlimited funds for development. So again, why not use someone that is doing it at no cost to Newtek?? Because of Bob, people can't complain that there is no MultiCam, no three wheel color correction, no Strobe filter, no connection to LW, no Bloom filter, etc. available for VT!! These features cost Newtek NOTHING! Not only that but if there are any problems Bob takes care of tech support for his own plugins and from my experience he does a great job at it. Do you feel the plugins are substandard? Does Newtek?? How so?


    Just because I am dealer does not make me not count.
    Sorry to offend. Let's just say it opens things up to a conflict of interest. Like a stock broker working for Fidelity saying that he buys Fidelity Mutual Funds so he is totally impartial. Not saying your aren't fair, just wondering if you would buy stock from that other fellow. I do still wonder where all the "non-dealer" users are singing the praises. Safe Harbor's VT forum is a ghost town and though I don't belong to the VTNT group on Yahoo I don't see many people who have nothing to gain Ooo'ing and ahh'ing over there. There was a time when you would see people who were not dealers who had nothing to gain from praising the product stand up and defend it. I was one of them and I really miss being able to defend them but I just can't honestly do it, they have fallen to far behind on the editing side.

    As for your other comment:
    I use QuickBooks because NewTek never finished that accounting module for VT I asked for.
    I agree it would be great to use this as a word processor and an accounting program as well but as you know there is no spell check in CG. In addition this has been brought up before and I think you would have to agree that asking for EDITING FEATURES in an EDITING PROGRAM is not as unreasonable as the ridiculous statement above would suggest.

    As for TMPG, see Eugene's post. I don't know why you would want to create or develop your own for the price you can get TMPG for unless you were just sure someone else was going to make a couple dollars. Doesn't TMPG offer an AC3 plugin? Does SE have one? As for setting up defaults, I am fairly certain that Eugene has some that he would have shared, again saving Newtek from paying a programmer to muddle through this. Let's face it, encoding to MPeg2 takes time and if they want to pay someone to render, test, change settings, render, test, change settings... they certainly are welcome to do this. It just seems to me that they don't really need to do it all themselves when they have people willing and so very obviously capable of helping them and so many other things to do.

    Ivan

  11. #26
    We've got it simple. Jim_C's Avatar
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    It would make sense that Bob would create the most requested and useful plug ins because.. well they are the most requested and useful and would sell.

    And it seems it would also make sense that Newtek would eventually incorporate these items themselves for the same reasons.

    "Good artists copy. Great artists steal" – Pablo Picasso.

  12. #27
    We've got it simple. Jim_C's Avatar
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    VTNT group on Yahoo I don't see many people who have nothing to gain Ooo'ing and ahh'ing over there. There was a time when you would see people who were not dealers who had nothing to gain from praising the product stand up and defend it.
    The VTNT list has become a ghost town because it has become an off topic playland for the same dozen people and is a complete mess to try and follow any actual PRODUCTIVE discussion about Newtek products anymore.

    At least that's why I don't find it as useful anymore.

  13. #28
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    ...follow any actual PRODUCTIVE discussion about Newtek products anymore.
    That's my point. Go to the Vegas group on Yahoo, go to the FCP group on Yahoo, they seem productive. What happened to the users? Why do you think this happened?

    Ivan

  14. #29
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan
    That's my point. Go to the Vegas group on Yahoo, go to the FCP group on Yahoo, they seem productive. What happened to the users? Why do you think this happened?

    Ivan
    I can honestly tell you. I asked 5 different clients of mine that specific question. "Why don't I see you on the boards anymore?"

    All of their answers to me can be summed up pretty well as this:
    "We are tired of seeing the same people whine about the same things all the time."

    one guy told me
    "there are many times I would like to post a question but I don't because I do not want to get told how bad of decision I made buying the 2 VTs I have. I couldn't do my job every week without my VTs"
    Jef Kethley
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  15. #30
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan
    I don't know why you would want to create or develop your own for the price you can get TMPG for unless you were just sure someone else was going to make a couple dollars.
    It is simple. Some users want to have everything in their editor. Many users want to be able to encode directly from the timeline. People requested it. NewTek put it in.
    Jef Kethley
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