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Thread: Bones just stop working

  1. #1

    Bones just stop working

    Anyone have any idea why bones would just stop working. This is a rig I have had for some time, same character, just finished rendering the scene I had made with him out - now I am going to copy this scene and create a new scene based on it. Trouble is, that now when I open it the mesh around the hand bones does nothing. It's as if there are no bones in the hand at all. All bones are rested, active, assigned to the correct weight maps in the hand, enable IK is on, enable deform is on. There are no modifiers on anything - it is a very simple rig. The opposite hand is still fine, it deforms no problem. I have tried re-resting the bones to no avail. Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    also... forgot to mention, this is an old rig and has been used many times. The difference in this scene is that the hand bones were parented to the actual model instead of the root bone (usually they're parented to the root bone) but I needed the hand to stay put while I moved the body. Worked wonderfully when I animated it and rendered it.

  3. #3
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    Try mirroring the good bones over. Also why not use IK instead to keep the hand in place?

  4. #4
    well - I could attempt that. I just don't want to go through a bunch of nonsense again. I was really hoping someone could tell me why this is happening. It's as if the bones are not even there. They deform nothing. I shouldn't be surprised to think that after all the releases we've had that bones would somehow work well. This problem has happened in the past (scene wroking one second - reload and everything is blown to hell) and will certainly happen in the future.
    ??? Try using IK to keep the hand in place? I am using IK to keep the hand in place. I have two options, no? One is to have a rig that when I move him the hands travel with the root bone - or whatever - or two, I have hands that are free to move independently of the root bone. Is there a third option?

  5. #5
    I can fix the issue by reparenting the wrist bone to the root bone, then rerest all my bones and then reparent back to the mesh. It works like a charm all through the scene. Only trouble is when I the exit and reload the scene the hand is completely screwed up again. Each time, over and over.

  6. #6
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    Parent the hand bone to the wrist or forearm bone and use IK.
    I cant recall ever having this issue enough to remember what the reason is.
    Usually its bones that are turned off after being rested. If youre doing that leave them on and set the bone strength to 0.

  7. #7
    I use an Albee type setup where the bones are the controllers.

    In your example Larry isn't there an issue with wanting the hand to move with the rig or without the rig? Say if you wanted the hand to sit still on a table when the rig moved you would need to parent the "goal" to either the mesh or nothing. But if you wanted the hands to follow the body as the body (the rig) moved then you'd need to parent your "goal" to the rig, no? Any way - I can't make heads or tails of it and I tried everything, it looks like everytime I open the scene I will have to do what I said in my previous post. After I do that it works fine and I can render out my scene no problem, it's just when I reload the thing. Why why why!!!!

  8. #8
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    The goal and IK would work the same way as it does in Tims rig.
    If you want the hand to stay locked in position simply keyframe the goal there.
    In Tims rig if you rotate the body too far the hand stays but the arm stretches. In mine the hand can pull away from the goal if the body is rotated too far. Either way you fix it the same way - by not moving/rotating the body too far away.

    I think youll have less trouble if the bones are all parented to each other properly and rather then have any bones turned off, set the bone strength to 0 and leave them on. Its also possible that the scenes corrupt or using an older rig with a newer version of LW causes problems.

  9. #9
    hey spec,

    just fyi, i've had this problem too. evidently, there is no rhyme or reason. newtek has not been forthcoming with any explanation and it's simply the case that bones stop working for no discernible reason.

    i've actually had this happen to me on a deadline where i saved the functioning scene and reopened it to find nothing working.

    and i will never forget that.

    anyhoo, it does happen and evidently no one knows why.

    jin

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SplineGod
    The goal and IK would work the same way as it does in Tims rig.
    If you want the hand to stay locked in position simply keyframe the goal there.
    In Tims rig if you rotate the body too far the hand stays but the arm stretches. In mine the hand can pull away from the goal if the body is rotated too far. Either way you fix it the same way - by not moving/rotating the body too far away.

    I think youll have less trouble if the bones are all parented to each other properly and rather then have any bones turned off, set the bone strength to 0 and leave them on. Its also possible that the scenes corrupt or using an older rig with a newer version of LW causes problems.
    In the rig I'm using, based on Tim's rigging, if you rotate the body the hand follows. It does not stay put because there is no "external" goal (the null that the pointer bone reaches for is parented to the wrist bone itself). This is unlike the feet which are parented to the mesh, so that the body may move and the feet stay put. To get around this I would parent my wrist bone to the mesh just like the feet. I have done this in the past with success.

    I might be inclined to agree tha the "older" rig (although it is pretty basic - it's hared to imagine that using the bone and IK system which is for the most part unchanged in 9.3 from any previous version after 7) if this wasn't something that pops it's head up in every version every now and then, as jin choung pointed out. Also, considering I can fix the problem (I can also import the rig to a blank scene, fix and still wind up with the same problems after reload) it's hard to imagine that something is corrupt. But, obviously something is happening. Thanks for your help Larry, and thanks jin for the moral support

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