Page 1 of 29 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 435

Thread: The Battle Over "Art"

  1. #1

    The Battle Over "Art"

    What became of Joe Battle's Poser Art Creations? They seemed to have vanished from the forum, along with all of the lively deliberation they roused.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    711
    If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say the mods got rid of it... I imagine the guy has got most of us on block anyway... (well those of us who offered anything other than compliments)

    If that's the case, I think it would have been better just to lock the thread, that way its documented and reference-able...and there wouldn't people like us going "huh where'd it go?"

    EDIT: just got the pun... "battle" over art..hahaha!

  3. #3
    If so, too bad. The ensuing conversations brought up valid artistic issues regarding premade content... and were an entertaining read.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    711
    Quote Originally Posted by agv
    If so, too bad. The ensuing conversations brought up valid artistic issues regarding premade content... and were an entertaining read.
    true, true.

  5. #5
    Mother have I angered you Joe Battle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    279

    I am the reason.

    I requested NewTek pull down all threads I started. They complied with my wish. I simply got fed up with the whole mess. Joe

  6. #6
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,502
    What, I missed all the forum drama again?
    Are my spline guides showing?

  7. #7
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    5,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Battle
    I requested NewTek pull down all threads I started. They complied with my wish. I simply got fed up with the whole mess. Joe
    A very reasonable thing to do - it had turned into the classic example of casting more heat than light.
    Faith is the opposite of Intelligence.

    Touched by his noodley appendage!
    My Lightwave Graphics & Downloads!!!

  8. #8
    Grafiks iz us dsol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,854
    Yeah, it's a shame to lose the whole thread. In particular, I though Mr. Rid put in some really good, thoughtful comments defending the use of pre-made content (and poser) for production.
    Dan Sollis : Independent CGI Designer & compositor
    Digital Distortion : Post Production for Film and Television
    http://www.digitaldistortion.net

    http://www.londonlightwave.org.uk/

  9. #9
    May the sauce be with you starbase1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    5,585
    Your right, Mr Rid made very intelligent contributions.

    I still don't understand why Poser generates such a huge hate reaction. I think it's about a lot more that use or pre made content... There are plenty of examples you could find round here of people using presets that came with the program, surface maps, or lighting setups or all kinds of things. Look at the demand for a surface library!

    Why not demand people make all their own stuff for that too?

    In the astronomical area, I know a guy who makes superb image maps for planets - better than stuff NASA releases. (yes, literally that good). I use them - they are better than anything I would come up with. Mine would be less accurrate. He takes it to the extreme of even writing his own planetary renderer, it will cope with all sorts of light scattering that you don't tend to get much in other circumstances. Should I follow his lead there too?

    Even at the more basic level, why is it Poser that is attacked and not Daz Studio?

    Vue users seem to expect to buy bundles of pre made skies and atmospheres, landscapes and buildings, they don't have this hatred of pre made content.

    It seems to overlap with some peoples deep dislike of showing scantily clad women - even in cases like the one where the thread lead to getting Oddity kicked out, nothing that would stop a film getting a U certificate. It may be cliched, and sometimes tasteless, often badly done, but it really doesn't justify the explosions of indignation we sometimes see...

    Maybe it's the overlap of pre made content and women that does it...

    Nick
    Faith is the opposite of Intelligence.

    Touched by his noodley appendage!
    My Lightwave Graphics & Downloads!!!

  10. #10
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,502
    I've used Poser for paid work a couple of times. Heck, one thing I used Poser for even ended up in the Luxology gallery!

    On the whole, I tend to dislike Poser stuff, because most of it is, quite frankly, crap. If you manage to produce something worthwhile while using Poser, that's great, though. Of course, keep in mind that using JUST pre-made content and then claiming the work to be your own is slightly dishonest. If all you do is load up a pre-made Poser model, stick a pre-made Poser pose on it, it's not your "art," since the focus of the piece is something someone else made. However, if you create a piece that merly contains pre-made content as a part of it, it is still, arguably, your work. Of course, there is a very gray and fuzzi line here...
    Are my spline guides showing?

  11. #11
    Gribbly's Day Out flakester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    1,002
    Understand where you are coming from Nick. Some good points well made.

    I think some of it comes from people feeling that apps like Poser and Facegen tread on their toes as an Artisan - a threat of sorts if you will.

    I personally don't have a problem with anything of that ilk that allows people to realise what they visualise. We have to remember that these are just tools for the artist to use.

    As in, you will find people making wonderful art with the most meagre (by the usual industry standpoint) of programs, others will be using the multi-thousand Pound (or Dollar!) apps to create their work - ranging from the poor to the absolutely outstading, and by the same token - you will still have people creating mind-blowing masterpieces with something as simple as a pencil and a sheet of A4.

    I'll just carry on doing what I do, and I'll also take the time to appreciate others works, no matter what app was used to create them, as well as those created while on the learning curve - I am of the opinion that artistic development never stops, least I hope mine doesn't!!

    My two pence worth.

    flakester.

    ::EDIT:: Capt Obvious raises a darn good point about claiming premade content as *yours* yes, grey fuzzy lines indeed - personally, not something I'd be happy doing.
    Last edited by flakester; 08-14-2007 at 07:02 AM.

  12. #12
    \\ is sparkling // Iain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    4,441
    Quote Originally Posted by starbase1
    Maybe it's the overlap of pre made content and women that does it...
    No, in this case it was the use of a pre made model (could have been any sex or kind of model but it was a female Poser model) as the main focus of a composition which contained little else other than someone else's space backdrop and proclaiming it as your own art.

    That's all.
    portfolio

    The Liver is evil and must be punished!

  13. #13
    Super Member ben martin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    821
    I believe that the bad reactions about pre-made content are wrong interpretation of concept and I understand that some people can't imagine using pre-made content in certain circumstances.

    For instance, at the moment I'm producing a short-story movie using characters fully modeled/textured in Lightwave.
    The characters are cartoon style stylized and probably you won't find them in any pre-made content set anyway.

    The next project I'm preparing it'll be something bigger and using human anatomy characters.
    I have no problem to tell you that my team is going to use pre-made content extracted from (Poser or DAZStudio figures) to build bodies to every character.
    The idea is to shape the base bodies using Poser/DazStudio morph tools to get the most accurate shape to each character and finally export the mesh to OBJ. Then in Lightwave modeler we'll finish the final details and add the photo ref. modeled faces and finally the expression endomorphs and UV textures.
    Where is the problem of getting a pre -made mesh to the body?

    Is that so wrong to avoid a full body mesh modeled from zero?
    I truly believe that this method is an intelligence signal rather than… what ever you wish to call it!

    It's almost like:
    I need a standard screwdriver, but I don't think is professional to buy one.
    I prefer to build one all by myself!
    Cum'on, you must be joking!

  14. #14
    Super Member ben martin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    821
    Quote Originally Posted by neverko
    Eeeewww....
    Come'on

    lol

  15. #15
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    755
    Wow, I think it's really sad that folk are driven to the point of requesting that their thread be removed.

    Joe, you should post your stuff on renderotica.com I know and understand that your work isn't pornographic, but that place is obviously better suited to getting a response on what people like and dislike about art in a sort of fantasy/erotic kinda sense. You'll likely get more feedback on the overall feeling you're wanting the image to give. Not everything on there is pornographic anyway, and there are many talented artists posting there.

    You're bound to get technical comments as well, but I doubt there'd be many (if any) "ditch the ready-made" type comments.

    Not once did you claim to be a great LightWave artist, you were always up-front and gave the impression you were totally up for learning it. For that reason, I think the respone in general was a raw deal. Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in learning LightWave, and whatever you do, don't let it stop you posting others.

Page 1 of 29 12311 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •