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Thread: Heart Attack with Registration: Newtek hear this!!!

  1. #61
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    Dongle-less protection schemes are subject to this sort of thing, but it's normally a very rare issue. Vista is way to aggressive in this respect - that is what is causing the problem.
    Hm, but the problem starts when the dongle-less system relies on a system that itself is prone to change often (since, apparently, changes within the OS affect the acrivation scheme of SE). I mean, there are plenty of parts in a machine that don't change (as much) and can readily be read out.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf
    Hm, but the problem starts when the dongle-less system relies on a system that itself is prone to change often (since, apparently, changes within the OS affect the acrivation scheme of SE). I mean, there are plenty of parts in a machine that don't change (as much) and can readily be read out.

    Cheers,
    Mike

    hi Mike,

    Thanks for put it so clearly!

    ZBrush 3 uses a dongle less protection scheme, and it doesn't asked me for a new serial number EVER. Installed on the same laptop over the same OS. Aside to probide portability between my computers, but that is another issue.

    And sorry to disagree with you SBowie, VISTA is not causing the problem, it is a bad implemented registration system that as mike pointed calculates its key number based on parts of the OS that can change.

    Best regards,
    David

  3. #63
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dballesg
    And sorry to disagree with you SBowie, VISTA is not causing the problem
    Strange, though, isn't it? I've got SE running on XP, have had for well over a year, many upgrades ... zero problems. Hmmmmm.

    Anyway dballesg, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, so no apology necessary.
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  4. #64
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    Strange, though, isn't it? I've got SE running on XP, have had for well over a year, many upgrades ... zero problems. Hmmmmm.
    Not an excuse though. SE is said to be compatible with Vista. Imho that would also imply that the protection scheme is (if Vista _is_ the culprit in this case, only NT know).

    Cheers,
    Mike

  5. #65
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    SE does support Vista. I'm seeing this as being 'the degree to which Vista is fickle, despite that.

    At the same time, I'm not suggesting NewTek may not be able to improve the situation to some degree, even if the underlying problem is not of their own making. But it remains that even if they do, the situation with Vista's intrusiveness will continue to be an annoyance. Resolving that would cure both problems with one action, which kind of goes to show where the critical fault lies. Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
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  6. #66
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    SE does support Vista. I'm seeing this as being 'the degree to which Vista is fickle, despite that.
    If Vista is indeed breaking SE, then SE doesn't support Vista, as simple as that.
    That's not even blaming anybody... but it's just the way it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    At the same time, I'm not suggesting NewTek may not be able to improve the situation to some degree, even if the underlying problem is not of their own making.
    It is their problem as soon as they state they support Vista though. Even if they didn't cause it because whatever they used for their licensing before doesn't work as expected anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    But it remains that even if they do, the situation with Vista's intrusiveness will continue to be an annoyance.
    That's not NTs problem or fault though, that's the users problem. However, stating an app is Vista compatible while it isn't... that is NTs problem (as I said, if Vista is indeed the culprit).

    And of course we disagree (And I'd still prefer a dongle ... even more so ).

    Cheers,
    Mike

  7. #67
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf
    And of course we disagree (And I'd still prefer a dongle ... even more so ).
    And so would I, so we agree on one thing ... but I find it ironic to see many say that now. Where was this silent majority during the many years of the 'death to the dongle' outcry ...

    Personally, I concluded some time ago that the most effective (and least expensive) approach is neither dongles nor software protection schemes, rather positive incentives in the form of exclusive 'value added' for legitimate use. Thieves will always find ways to steal ... better to reward honest users than annoy them by throwing expensive and ineffectual obstacles in the path of the unethical.
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  8. #68
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    And so would I, so we agree on one thing ... but I find it ironic to see many say that now. Where was this silent majority during the many years of the 'death to the dongle' outcry ...
    Well, that is one thing I never changed my mind on -rare enough
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    Personally, I concluded some time ago that the most effective (and least expensive) approach is neither dongles nor software protection schemes, rather positive incentives in the form of exclusive 'value added' for legitimate use. Thieves will always find ways to steal ... better to reward honest users than annoy them by throwing expensive and ineffectual obstacles in the path of the unethical.
    I'd love to see an example in the software industry where that works, especially looking at "pro" products.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  9. #69
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    So would I - it would be a 'ballsy' move ... hard to see how it could fail to lead to widespread proliferation. Clearly, a lot of that would be illicit use .. the proof of the pudding would only come over time, by legitimate adoption - or not.

    Wouldn't it be interesting if there were a product which could serve as an acid test, say a product that - though arguably professional - by it's very nature was meant it was not really the lifeblood of a company, and could serve for such an experiment ... say something like SE. Wouldn't it be fun just to see what sort of penetration resulted?
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  10. #70
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    Wouldn't it be fun just to see what sort of penetration resulted?
    The problem is... what would be the added value? Clipart? That's the junk I never install anyhow
    On the other hand... a free product and paid for support - Open source here we go, but that is a different business model.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  11. #71
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    Hi,

    The only thing I know it is John Perkins hasn't be able to help me yet. I am not saying he is not doing it ok?

    I sent to him the Product ID that have changed and the new one SE is showing, so I suspect he is busy looking right now what changed that produced SE to ask for a new code.

    But I am still unable to use SE after 2 days!

    David

  12. #72

    registration quit

    All I did was plug in my blu ray burner and ban SE is nolonger registered.
    I move the Blu ray between several machines.
    I guess I have to use Premiere now.
    Pete
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  13. #73
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf
    The problem is... what would be the added value? Clipart? That's the junk I never install anyhow
    If by 'clipart' you are referring to all expanded content in general in a pejorative manner, then I disagree again.

    Hard copy of truly good quality content useful in real world contexts (and too large for download) would be one example. DVD's cost next to nothing, a small fraction of what a dongle costs, even with shipping to registered customers. And the large size of such content would make an effective deterrent to piracy over the net. That's just one notion. Priority or restricted access to excellent support is another, and there are other options. Would the cost of producing a professional quality newsletter exceed the cost of protections schemes? I doubt it, and it would bring further marketing benefits, as well.

    Just free-associating here, but I think you could pack a lot of value added in that would multiply benefits in many ways and still be well under the actual cost of protection. On top of that, there is the fact that there are still many honest people who would be pleased to throw their support behind a scheme that rewarded the ethical instead of punishing them. Heck, even some of the cheaters might be moved to show support for such a course of action. At the very least, it would invalidate every one of their specious if never-ending arguments for piracy.
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  14. #74
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    If by 'clipart' you are referring to all expanded content in general in a pejorative manner, then I disagree again.
    Clipart isn't pejorative, junk is
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    And the large size of such content would make an effective deterrent to piracy over the net.
    Not really. I can pull a DVD in 20-30 minutes at home (SUSE Linux in this case).
    And good quality content is very, very rare, ad at least for me not an incentive. It isn't likely to cover the projects I've got coming up in the next few years. We usually buy it if we need it, with the exception of one very generic library of images that we got a few years agon and used a few times.
    If want content I buy it... not an app.
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    That's just one notion. Priority or restricted access to excellent support is another, and there are other options.
    That is the only point that makes sense imho. But as I said,then you might as well open source the software (lower development costs) and just sell support.
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    Would the cost of producing a professional quality newsletter exceed the cost of protections schemes? I doubt it, and it would bring further marketing benefits, as well.
    You mean: Get extra advertising when you purchase our product? Is that an incentive?
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    On top of that, there is the fact that there are still many honest people who would be pleased to throw their support behind a scheme that rewarded the ethical instead of punishing them.
    No doubt here. The question is how many. Judging by looking at me... tons. Looking around at other studios... a lot less than expected
    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie
    At the very least, it would invalidate every one of their specious if never-ending arguments for piracy.
    They're not arguments, they're excuses

    Cheers,
    Mike

  15. #75
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf
    Not really. I can pull a DVD in 20-30 minutes at home (SUSE Linux in this case). And good quality content is very, very rare, ad at least for me not an incentive.
    I disagree again. I don't think the warez sites are going to devote the resources for that sort of thing. It's one thing to host a pirated app, a few hundred megs at most usually - quite another to host many gigs of downloadables.

    Incentive, reward for ownership .. whatever you call it, I think it's value added, and every positive incentive is a good thing, every negative impediment the reverse.
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