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Thread: Heart Attack with Registration: Newtek hear this!!!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbartlett
    You buy a product, receive merchandise and then are faced with the reality that you only have the right to use, not the ownership. You might fashion the arrangment to suit how you wish to use it, but the ownership remains elsewhere with the right to use extended out to you. Much as this is ludicrous and much as a company like NewTek allows you to transfer the right-to-use. It is still just as intangible.
    The answer is in your answer. The right to use. You bought the right to use. Activation puts an arbitrary limit on your right to use. That sucks. If the company folds, you're screwed next time you change systems. If your data was in a propriertary format, you're even more screwed. Don't overlook the prospect of forced upgrades : "we no longer support that version, please pay X and we will give you a shiny activation code for our new version, although it might have compatibility problems". Ask the MotionBuilder 5.x folks what they thought when AutoDesk/Alias tried this stunt.

    Not to be disheartened though as this doesn't stop the product doing what it is capable of doing. Life itself is a lease also. The legal eagles are just making sure we are reminded of this.
    Huh? If the damn thing won't run because the activation watchdog has thrown a hissy fit, then the product will stop doing anything at all (usually). SpeedEdit might have a 15-day window, which at least is something, but it doesn't change the fact that you are at the mercy of the gods of activation. I don't like that at all: I didn't buy a lease, but, as you note, I bought a right to use.

    If SE was US$20 or US$20,000 per license, I expect the posts here would be just as emotive. Would you cow-tao to an audience paying US$469.99 ( http://www.sharbor.com/your-cart/index.cgi?NTKN0320003 ) or less for any product or service you offer in your business or organization?
    The money represents the risk of loss if your activation request is declined. If you're spending 20K on something, you're likely to be relying on it pretty heavily (or have far too much money and too little sense). Having it go offline because of activation watchdogs is generally not going to make anyone very happy. Especially if the vendor has disappeared.

    That said, I have $10 shareware here that also relies on online activation, added in a post-release update which was pushed without notice and this has also seriously pissed me off simply because it's so customer-hostile. Here, the money is not a factor. It's the way that the license control was suddenly changed without any consideration of the customer.

    I just don't think SpeedEDIT must be sought after enough if the licensing is preventing a sale. Quicktime Pro isn't portable or upgradabe and isn't really much of an application in itself, yet those are knocking up $470 worth of sales every minute or two, - I'd imagine.
    Quicktime Pro just has a serial number. It's completely portable. What was your point?
    Inactive.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf
    I didn't want to read to your b*tching and ranting, that's why
    (not unless you have a good reason that is ).
    Cheers,
    Mike *snicker*

    Ooooh. Harsh I only ***** and moan to you about the lack of infiniMap on Mac LW, but you know this already

    Activation is one of my key irritations these days, that's all. It is *such* a pain. My partner has licenses for Sophocles screen writing software. Having had one machine stolen and another die rather badly, we're now having to play the activation game again to get it running under CrossOver Office on her replacement machine.

    There's also specialised CAD software here with a parallel port dongle. I don't have a machine with a parallel port, so we can't use it without cracks, yet it cost a *great* deal of money. The vendor doesn't exist anymore; we're both fluent in the package so it makes no sense to spend even more money on an alternative.

    I also have had numerous LW plugins that could not be revived after a dongle swap/system change because the vendor had vanished. That's frustrating.
    Inactive.

  3. #33
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil
    Ooooh. Harsh
    I don't think so... actually I suppose I got a fairly cheery grin out of you when you read that

    Cheers,
    Mike

  4. #34
    Registered User rbartlett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil
    Quicktime Pro just has a serial number. It's completely portable. What was your point?
    I was wrong to use that example and didn't have first hand experience of where people take issue on subsequent purchases anyway - so I should have kept that thought to myself. Sorry for that.

    Back to the topic:
    There are conditions on the right to use that you are bound to by the agreement used at the point of installation. Migrating from the single machine is not supported in the conditions agreed. The extension to this is provided through the arrangements in customer services. Rightly or wrongly.

    It is semantics and of course NewTek want their software bought, used and made even more popular.

  5. #35
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbartlett
    Migrating from the single machine is not supported in the conditions agreed.
    That does depend a lot on the country where it is sold though, local law might makes terms like that void...

    Cheers,
    Mike

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by rbartlett
    Migrating from the single machine is not supported in the conditions agreed.
    I didn't migrate machines however. I just changed my cd writing software which was enough to invalidate the license, and meant I couldn't use SpeedEdit for 2 days. That's not acceptable in my book...
    Last edited by iainbyoung; 07-23-2007 at 08:45 AM.

  7. #37
    Cow Orker cagey5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainbyoung
    I didn't migrate machines however. I just changed my cd writing software which was enough to invalidate the license, and meant I couldn't use SpeedEdit for 2 days. That's not acceptable in my book...
    :agree:
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainbyoung
    I didn't migrate machines however. I just changed my cd writing software which was enough to invalidate the license, and meant I couldn't use SpeedEdit for 2 days. That's not acceptable in my book...

    Hi,

    So you had a problem similar to mine. An installation or uninstallation of OTHER software screwed up the registration system of SE.

    Then I will start to consider there is a SERIOUS bug on the registration scheme that Newtek uses, and MUST BE corrected.

    rbartlett: NEITHER iainbyoung or me migrated SE to another machine. So we do not violated the conditions agreed.

    Looks like the system it is faulty then, and Newtek it is still silent (unless they are looking into it, and that is why they are quiet).

    For me is very simply, I bought a copy of SE to use it, and Newtek has the legal and moral obligation of repair the registration system if avoids me using my legally acquired software. No more nor less.

    Best regards,
    David

  9. #39
    Paintball Video Geek billmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainbyoung
    I didn't migrate machines however. I just changed my cd writing software which was enough to invalidate the license, and meant I couldn't use SpeedEdit for 2 days. That's not acceptable in my book...
    What makes you so certain broke the terms of the license causing a problem, as opposed to found a bug in the license portion of the software?
    Toasting with NewTek since 1991 - Corinthian Media Services
    Riding Quiet on an Electric Ninja.

  10. #40
    I didn't break the terms of the license, but the software thought I had. This is not a bug as such. It's more a design flaw in the way the licensing software works.

    Certain software changes on the machine (including low level driver updates) can have a subtle change on the hardware signiture of the machine. It is possible to code protection systems that will allow subtle changes (for example if just the graphics driver changes, then it's obvious you haven't installed on a different machine), and not invalidate your license.

    This is not a particularly difficult thing to code (I know because I've written stuff myself at work that does this), and I'm surprised that Newtek didn't build this into the license code.

    I've paid a lot of money for the right to use the software, (well it is for me)and I don't expect to have to days of downtime or have to buy another license simply because I've installed some different software on the machine, or updated a driver. It's a surefire way of losing customers, (it's already making me think of looking elsewhere)...

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverko
    Whatever NewTek does or doesn't do. Now they're aware that there's a group of people who'll refuse to buy their software if they use stupid licensing schemes, like the one they use for SE. The ball is in their court. Sell software or don't sell software.

    The choice should be obviously easy when you run a business.
    For me it is not only if they sell more SE copies or not, it is that I want to USE my software BEING ABSOLUTELY SURE that a software change on my machine it is not going to screw SE registration system EVER again.

    And I will be convinced they are aware, when they post something on any of the threads open about the issue.

    Best regards,
    David

  12. #42
    Paintball Video Geek billmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iainbyoung
    I didn't break the terms of the license, but the software thought I had. This is not a bug as such. It's more a design flaw in the way the licensing software works.
    If the license is meant to be unaffected by a change in drivers, but a change in drivers affects it due to a design flaw, I would certainly count that as a bug.
    Toasting with NewTek since 1991 - Corinthian Media Services
    Riding Quiet on an Electric Ninja.

  13. #43
    From a developers point of view, design flaws are not the same as bugs

  14. #44
    Paintball Video Geek billmi's Avatar
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    Yes, but that's just the semantics of classifying the problem.

    The point I was after was that a flaw in software that caused a registration problem is something likely to be addressed and taken care of, if reported as a bug, and is entirely different than if the software was actually meant to force you to re-activate when you change a display driver or CD writing software.
    Toasting with NewTek since 1991 - Corinthian Media Services
    Riding Quiet on an Electric Ninja.

  15. #45
    But without looking at the source code, I can't tell you which was the case. I suspect it's just something that they hadn't considered, but in either case it's extremely annoying for the customer.

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