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Thread: Blasting DVD Audio problem

  1. #31
    In VT4, about 1% of the users understood the audio levels settings. Searching the forums for anything related to levels or offsets will prove this easily.

    So, we decided to take the digital approach with 0db at the top of the vu meters and have the render exactly fit the meters.

    If you created the show with peaks almost touching 0db, simply turn down the trim knob until the levels are just peaking comfortably in the -12 to 0db range.

    I just rendered a 0db tone with the trim adjusted to see -12db in the vu meters and it created a perfect -12db tone when reimported, so it does render correctly.

    If you created the show with the vu's buried into the unusable 0db to +12 db range, you will need to adjust the level for individual the clips.

    Make sure that you are using the Trim knob on the editor window and not the Volume knob on the output window. The trim knob effects the project while the volume knob just effects the sound card output volume.

    Also make sure that you are looking at the meters next to the trim knob, not any external meters you may have.

    BTW, the nomenclature for the knobs was intentional. The trim adjustment is upstream of the volume knob that controls the sound card output level.
    John Perkins
    Software Engineer

    "No, it's my natural color..."

  2. #32
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Just to be absolutely clear about this - the Trim knob referred to is the one labeled "Trim":
    --
    Regards, Steve
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  3. #33
    Toaster Oven
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R
    Everyone is telling me that I should be setting all of my audio levels to -12db. That is not practical when you have hundreds of clips.
    Perhaps not helpful for this project, but you need to keep in mind the audio levels for each clip just as you would for video levels, color, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony R
    Again, it is competely ridiculous to omit the -12db option in the render panel.
    I think John just covered this, but there is no need for a -12db option if you do not have analog outputs (the option in VT4 is there to adjust rendering levels from those set for analog output).
    And John also makes another good point - use a 0db test tone and render this out, burn DVD, etc. This will help determine where the issue is for you.

  4. #34
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    How can something this essential get this complicated and drawn out? Where is the speed in editing something and six days later you can't make a proper DVD? For crying out loud even if you take four days more in iMovie you'd still deliver the DVD two days ahead. Put in a button that says "Export Audio for DVD", something, anything but this is ridiculous. Do like DVDSP does and give the user Expert, Intermediate or Beginner interfaces so they can create at their own level of experience.

    In VT4, about 1% of the users understood the audio levels settings. Searching the forums for anything related to levels or offsets will prove this easily.
    As for 1% of users understanding the audio levels in VT4, it would be more if it wasn't a moving target. Or it should tell you something about how this was designed. Do you think that Avid, FCP, or any other company says this about their users?

    Ivan

  5. #35
    I wasn't meaning to imply anything about the users, I meant that the audio settings were far too hard to understand.

    Part of the confusion in this thread seems to be in trying to unlearn the complicated VT4 way of dealing with audio.

    The settings now are pretty much what every other application uses. Besides the clip audio controls, there is one control for overall project volume and the meters reflect the volume that the rendered file will be.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.
    John Perkins
    Software Engineer

    "No, it's my natural color..."

  6. #36
    Toaster Oven
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan
    ...Where is the speed in editing something and six days later you can't make a proper DVD? ...
    I've mentioned this in other threads - first priority should be the ability to export a project to a good looking/sounding DVD. Having to render before encoding is a huge time waste.
    In any event, it sounds if Tony R has some other issue since I don't hear others having the same problem. Which is why render to avi & check levels first - elimminate SE first.

  7. #37
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvp
    I've mentioned this in other threads - first priority should be the ability to export a project to a good looking/sounding DVD. Having to render before encoding is a huge time waste.
    Not following, sorry? There is no need to perform a 'test render' to check levels. Maybe I misunderstand your thought....
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  8. #38
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    I don't think Jeff means a "test render", I think he means the time spent rendering to DV to bring a SpeedEDIT project into TMPGEnc, since there is still NO VTP loader from SpeedEDIT into TMPGEnc.

    But yes, I think what Jeff says for Tony's issue is a very good idea, render out to an AVI and check the levels there to rule out SpeedEDIT as the problem.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  9. #39
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    I think the confusion here is if it sounds good on the timeline then why
    does it sound bad on the DVD.
    John you and da boyz need to make this much simpler. If that means
    DVD export checked the so be it but these guys are right it should not be
    a crap shoot for users to make a DVD. Maybe a 1.5 option?
    Not complaining just saying.
    Bob

  10. #40
    It is already WYSIWYG(or what you hear actually), so I'm not sure what do beyond that.

    We just need to determine exactly what is going on in this one case and go from there.
    John Perkins
    Software Engineer

    "No, it's my natural color..."

  11. #41
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    I really think this is just a unique circumstance in something Tony is doing, and the only way to solve it would be for him to get in touch with Newtek's Tech Support directly.

    I haven't heard of this problem before, SpeedEDIT levels are easier to deal with than VT, so there's something unique going on that the rest of us are not seeing.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  12. #42
    OK, I brought the TRIM knob down so that the majority of the wedding video I edited was capping off at -12db. Of course it took me over an hour to adjust tons of clips so they werent so low that you couldnt hear them (which is exactly what happened with ceremony and toast volumes.

    i wont go through that again. There has to be a better way. That TRIM knob is only good if the audio of an entire timeline is at -12db. Anything lower will be too low to hear. The compressor is so much better because it affects the entire timeline and it can be done quickly.

    It is still ridiculous to me that we need to know that -12db is the new 0db. For that reason alone, there NEEDS to be a -12db reduction in audio for every DVD render option. It has to be built in. Why isnt it? If I didnt read these forums, I would never know this has to be done. I dont see it mentioned anywhere in the manual.

    Tony

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