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Thread: Netek! I want something like this

  1. #16
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    Ugh. Tiresome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Maier
    Funny you say that because Apple's new Color is actually DaVinci killer Silicone Color Final Touch 2k, a $24,000 color corrector that Apple added for FREE to Final Cut Studio. It is a great tool and competes with DaVinci. No other NLE on the market today for PC can do better than that in terms of color correction. Truth is Final Cut Studio is the best option around short of a full blown Smoke suite or something on the same level. It's even giving high end Avids a run for their money. Studio now has 5.1 support along with many other improvements to Soudtrack Pro in version 2. It seems its giving Vegas a run for its money where it shined most. On the top of that Motion 2 with 3D is GREAT! FCP is now resolution, format and frame rate independent.
    Did I mention the $24,000 DaVinci killer color corrector?
    What Final Cut Studio became with the current upgrades is basically a DS killer (it was a Media Composer killer already) and all for $1,300. While all that is happening SpeedEdit doesn’t even have a lousy demo yet. Well, anyway, for me it no longer matters. I waited too long. I’m getting Final Cut Studio 2.
    I may stop by every now and then to see how the “Fastest Editor on the Planet” is doing but given how slow things move around here I find that self proclaimed title quite ironic.
    Last edited by imagic; 04-18-2007 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobt
    >Funny you say that because Apple's new Color is actually
    >DaVinci killer Silicone Color Final Touch 2k,
    What couldnt you do in Fusion, Shake or AE?
    Maybe its the interface? Honestly at the show I saw nothing that has not
    been done before.
    So please give me an idea as to what it was doing that was so special.
    Masking? Color Replacment, Auto color balance like PhotoShop?
    What item is it that makes it all that?

    I am very interested to hear.

    Bob

    How about we start with 8 secondaries?

  3. #18
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    Why'd they stop at 8... so often I can't complete a project because I need 9 or 10 secondaries. Dang.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Maier
    How about we start with 8 secondaries?

  4. #19
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    >How about we start with 8 secondaries?
    Just like stacking any number of color replacement/masked color adjusments?
    Yeah any app can make a stack of mask and adjust.

    Bob
    bobt_at_bobfx_com
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    Bob Tasa

  5. #20
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobt
    What couldnt you do in Fusion, Shake or AE?
    Easy. Workflow.
    Have you ever tried to do complex colour corrections on a shot by shot basis, pulling footage from an edit using any of these packages?
    *ouch*
    Color gives you the same options, but you can work at 10 times the speed, and that does make a difference.

    One could always say: Why bother using a video editor, you can do the same thing in a compositor. Of course you can... but how efficient is it?

    Cheers,
    Mike

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by imagic
    Why'd they stop at 8... so often I can't complete a project because I need 9 or 10 secondaries. Dang.
    So good luck with SpeedEdit, AE and whatever you are using for grading short of a full blown grading system like DaVinci, Pablo , Pandora, Lustre etc.
    Or you can get Final Cut Studio 2

    How many secondaries SpeedEdit has by the way?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobt
    >How about we start with 8 secondaries?
    Just like stacking any number of color replacement/masked color adjusments?
    Yeah any app can make a stack of mask and adjust.

    Bob
    Really? Do you know what secondary color correction is?
    I know Vegas has only 1 for example.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobt
    Yeah any app can make a stack of mask and adjust.

    Bob
    Coming to think of it, after the above remark it's not even worth to keep replying to your posts. If any application can do what Color does, why were people paying $24,000 for Silicone Color Final Touch before Apple bought it and made it available for free with FCS2? Why people even buy Davincis or Pablos? Final Touch is on the same level.
    Last reply to your nonsense.

  9. #24
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    You can have six secondary color filters per clip in Vegas... (actually 6 filters per clip, but they could all be secondary color). The filter(s) can be applied to clips, or to the video bus track, they can be keyframed, again on a clip-by-clip basis or through the whole project with the bus.

    Secondary Color Correction is not a difficult concept to grasp, or to research. Why insult the intelligence of people you don't know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Maier
    Really? Do you know what secondary color correction is?
    I know Vegas has only 1 for example.
    Last edited by imagic; 04-19-2007 at 07:36 AM.

  10. #25
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    Perhaps it is just an enthusiasm for color treatments; the "custom film stock" look that is driving this discussion. It is indeed very important in the motion picture industry, and television, to control color to an extreme degree. If my career took me to Hollywood, I'd surely be more interested in FCP.

    I'm self-employed, and do video on the side (I'm a commercial architectural photographer by trade)... furthermore my videos are in the 30sec to 5min range, shot run and gun style, usually in HDV. No wonder SpeedEdit seems right for me.

    Part of being a fast editor is not having too many controls to contend with. Minimalism does beget speed. Newtek is not pitching SPeedEdit as the world's "best" NLE, but sometimes it seems that is what is being argued. Even if "World's Fastest" claim is highly subjective, I do feel that keeping it simple is a benefit towards that goal. I guess SpeedEdit sounds better than EfficientEdit, which is how I think of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Maier
    Coming to think of it, after the above remark it's not even worth to keep replying to your posts. If any application can do what Color does, why were people paying $24,000 for Silicone Color Final Touch before Apple bought it and made it available for free with FCS2? Why people even buy Davincis or Pablos? Final Touch is on the same level.
    Last reply to your nonsense.

  11. #26
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    Mike I wrote colorReplace and 3Wheeler for VT4 and SE which does masking and color replacement and color manipulation. It even had saveable presets.
    It did some of what I saw Color do.
    Both filters had area masks that can be combined with a color selection mask. My interface is NO where as cool though.
    And it did not supply as many masks but it was out 2 years ago.

    And I know you can do this in other applications as well.
    The workflow is not the same but it can be done.

    Second the reason why people pay/paid a ton for color systems is wasnt until recently that low cost CPU power was strong enough to deal with 2K/4K footage. When did the Quad CPU come out or even the core2 Duo? When did HDV happen about a year ago?
    Most editing apps worked primarily in SD/DV which is what people were using.

    To prove my point at NAB Apple was using the new Dual Quads because it still
    takes some serious horsepower to get this working quickly at large sizes.

    In comparison a lot of things that were done on 50K SGI boxes a few years back are done on AE on a PC or Mac.

    So instead of thinking of it as a miracle think of it as a new interface you like.
    Remember one more point. Those big money color systems come with one extra feature.. A colorist.

    What a demo does not show is the amount of preperation goes into the slot selection etc. how to approach the shot and how to get a dramatic look with
    the tools you are given. Colorists know how to emotion from color. They get that look. I like to think I know something about color but I would have never
    chosen to use an ellipse to mask off the boxer shot to darken the surounding and warm up the area around him. Just wound not have thought of that.
    But a good colorist would if you say isolate him some more.
    Color is OLD tech. Not something that you could not have done before if you
    wanted to.
    This was all out long ago.. Truely nothing revolutionary, except for the marketing.

    PS..
    How many of you do color treatments..

  12. #27
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    >custom film stock
    Well there is nothing that Color does that will make video HD included look like film. That is another thing altogether. There just isnt enough lattitude unless you have a RED. Then maybe you could get much closer.

    Bob

  13. #28
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    >Last reply to your nonsense.
    ROFL..

  14. #29
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    Anyone know if I can get that ducati shot they used?
    bobt_at_bobfx_com
    www.bobfx.com
    Bob Tasa

  15. #30
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    Hi Bob,

    You make many good points. As a still photographer I know exactly what you are talking about; in fact even 12-bit RAW source files start to visibly band with too much color processing. 16-bit and beyond source files are necessary to do truly cool stuff.

    Funny, I shoot for architects, and they don't consider video to be a viable medium yet; mostly because of limited dynamic range. I end up creating enormous 360 virtual tours (6000x12000 pixels) in HDR, and then animating the result in a 3D application. It's the only way I can adequately control color and tone as in a still photo (and retouch it, too) while still being able to create camera moves (pans + zooms) that look real, as opposed to 2-dimensional (Ken Burns effect).

    I'd need a 16-bit RAW video format to get close to the lattitude required. Hopefully we'll see that in a sub-$10,000 camera before the decade is over.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bobt
    >custom film stock
    Well there is nothing that Color does that will make video HD included look like film. That is another thing altogether. There just isnt enough lattitude unless you have a RED. Then maybe you could get much closer.

    Bob

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