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  1. #1
    gold plated 3D Chrusion's Avatar
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    Request: Image Sequence Options

    We need SE to support ALL image sequences the same as SE treats TGA sequences, BUT also need the option to select just a single image from a sequence to use as a still as well (for instance as a hold frame).

    To that end, there probably needs to be an option to disable thumbnail caching/generation so that folders with thousands of images do not "lock up" SE as it cycles thru those hundreds and hundreds of files.
    Dean A. Scott, mfa
    Senior 3D Animator and Graphic Design Illustrator, @ Astec, Inc.
    Owner / Lead Artist @ chrusion | FX

  2. #2
    gold plated 3D Chrusion's Avatar
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    ... and if the current "folder as a sub-project clip" method is retained for img seq handling (in addition to the sequence as a clip for all img formats request above), then PLEASE show us a PROGRESS BAR as those images are ingested, cuz right now, SE goes into "Not Responding" mode from several to tens of minutes when a folder of several thousand images is dragged to the storyboard/timeline.

    What takes SE so long to do 5,000 imgs anway? Vegas imports the same seq. in less than 15 seconds. SE is currently going on 20 minutes, thus making it the world's SLOWEST editor.

    Oops, there are 2 or 3 separate sequences in this folder. I guess SE is going to import them all, cuz there isn't a way to tell SE to just import one of the named seq's. That option is mandatory as well.

    .
    Dean A. Scott, mfa
    Senior 3D Animator and Graphic Design Illustrator, @ Astec, Inc.
    Owner / Lead Artist @ chrusion | FX

  3. #3
    gold plated 3D Chrusion's Avatar
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    ... passed 30 minutes now, so I checked the folder in Explorer and it did have only two jpeg sequences, one 5,400 frames and the other half that.

    But, curiously, there's a new hidden folder in there named "Newtek Info" and it looks like SE is making a thumbnail cache at the blazing speed of 1 (one) "img_seq_filename.ext.WindowsMediaDesc" file (1KB) per 1.3 seconds. At this rate its going to take SE TWO HOURS 52 MINUTES to ingest these two sequences! This just ain't right at all.

    NEWTEK, Please hear our (my) pleading cry for mercy and spare us this horrific performance bottleneck!

    .
    Dean A. Scott, mfa
    Senior 3D Animator and Graphic Design Illustrator, @ Astec, Inc.
    Owner / Lead Artist @ chrusion | FX

  4. #4
    That's actually a bug report item, not a feature request.

    You don't have to request that we fix them, just help us to duplicate the problem here and we will happily fix it.

    I'm exporting a sequence right now to verify, but if I can't duplicate the slowdown for whatever reason, I'd like to get your contact info. Email me at [email protected]

    Your suggestions for handling sequences are very good. I'll make sure that we think about those, but I can never say what features are accepted until just before release.

    Thanks,
    John Perkins
    Software Engineer

    "No, it's my natural color..."

  5. #5
    gold plated 3D Chrusion's Avatar
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    John,

    Just to clarify, it's the speed at which these info files are being created that's the known bug, correct?

    I gave up after 3 hours at around filename_02000 or so... the speed of info files being created had decreased to one every 3 seconds.

    As you'll see in the Gen Support Forum, I'm questioning the core handling of icons/thumbs by having SE do all the work scanning the entire folder and generate separate "info" files on a 1:1 basis before allowing you to do anything. No other app that I know off does this. In most apps, file icons/thumbs are handled directly by the OS. Let the OS use it's OWN icons and/or thumbs in file view panels, etc. Of course this totally negates the internal LOOK of SE, so I guess there has to be some better way to either disable thumbnail caching or speed it up 10,000% and NOT HOG disk sectors with an equal number of 1KB files. How about a single thumbnail.db file, instead?

    Thanks for listening! Appreciate it very much.
    .
    Dean A. Scott, mfa
    Senior 3D Animator and Graphic Design Illustrator, @ Astec, Inc.
    Owner / Lead Artist @ chrusion | FX

  6. #6
    Visually Developed Monkey cholo's Avatar
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    I have an idea. How about having SpeedEDIT recognize folders whose names start with "SEQ" as image sequences automatically and instead of allowing access inside the folder it just creates a thumbnail for the folder like any other video clip? Inside you could have sequences in any file format, even mixed.

  7. #7
    gold plated 3D Chrusion's Avatar
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    Excellent idea! And for thumbs within the clip itself for viewing on the timeline, just grab the image filenames at the required interval and make INTERNAL thumbs in RAM. No need to create/store an image to disc on a 1:1 basis. I'm sure this is what Vegas does. When a clip is expanded/zoomed into, just grab new images from the folder at a different interval, resample to thumbs, and stick them in memory. Wow! SUPER FAST!

    Yes, this is the sort of RETHINK we need Newtek to not just consider, but DO!

    .
    Dean A. Scott, mfa
    Senior 3D Animator and Graphic Design Illustrator, @ Astec, Inc.
    Owner / Lead Artist @ chrusion | FX

  8. #8
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    How about SE just recognizing sequences by their frame numbers and displaying them as one clip, just like many compositors do (i.e. Fu5)?

    Basically, treat them as a single video file.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  9. #9
    Visually Developed Monkey cholo's Avatar
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    Lightwolf:

    Ah... But what if you want to have a folder with numbered images and not interpret it as a sequence. I do this all the time for subtitling. with the SEQ folder name idea you can have it work any way you want. In fact, you could name it SEQXX, XX being the frame rate you want the clip to default to. For example... SEQ23976Spaceship, SEQ2997Backdrop, etc... Also, this way you don't have to fumble with interpretation dialog boxes, but just get down to editing. Aren't we supposed to be the world's fastest editor community?

  10. #10
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cholo
    Lightwolf:

    Ah... But what if you want to have a folder with numbered images and not interpret it as a sequence.
    Easy, make the darn thing user defineable on a sequence by sequence basis, right click, break concat (or whatever), done. After all, we do have a folder of hidden metadata that may as well store info like that.
    And it would retain us the freedom of naming folders the way we want to.

    Cheers,
    Mike

  11. #11
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I'm with Lightwolf on this one, but given the way SE works it might be necessary to have it automatically popup up a "Sequence or Stills?" requester on first access of the folder when a numeric sequence is initially detected.
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    Regards, Steve
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  12. #12
    Husband, Father of 5 nthused's Avatar
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    This is a BIG issue where I work. We write out PNG sequences for our animations as file size is an issue when dealing with the number of projects with animations that we do versus harddrive space available.

    Please address this oversight in SpeedEDIT. Honestly everyone in the office was very excited about the product - until I brought up what they have to do to bring our sequences into the editor. It was a big "turn-off" for the folks already using Premiere.

    Other than this one thing...I REALLY like working in SpeedEDIT.
    Allen Bussell

  13. #13
    Production Wizard radams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwolf
    Easy, make the darn thing user defineable on a sequence by sequence basis, right click, break concat (or whatever), done. After all, we do have a folder of hidden metadata that may as well store info like that.
    And it would retain us the freedom of naming folders the way we want to.

    Cheers,
    Mike

    I totally agree with you Mike !!!!

    We also need to have several file options supported...as in jpeg, jpeg2000, dpx, png, hdr, openEXR, etc...etc...

    Cheers,
    Ray Adams
    FX and Production Supervisor

  14. #14
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Hiya'll...
    Plenty to answer, please excuse me for not quoting:

    @SBowie: What if there are multiple sequences in a folder? Be default they should be displayed as a clip (no need for thumbnails and probably covers 90% of the use cases) and broken up by user intervention.

    @cholo: Nothing would happen if the meta data is lost afaik. The settings for clips used in a project are stored within the project. The worst thing that could happen is that a sequence you had broken into files up will display as a single sequence next time you navigate to the folder.

    @radams: Would be nice to have, however, some would need extra conversion input by the user (I'd love to be able to import EXRs, set the HDR->LDR transfer settings and then have SE render that out in the BG to something that can be played back in RT - re-rendering if I change the settings of course).

    Cheers,
    Mike

  15. #15
    gold plated 3D Chrusion's Avatar
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    I strongly vote for NO metadata/thumbs/etc in hidden folders for image sequences! If metadata is absolutely required, then make it a single file made within the same folder as the seq.

    How much more Efficient would metadata be if contained in a single file? Such would result in a HUGE savings of harddrive sectors and a big decrease in file access time, since only one file would need to be opened rather than hundreds or thousands.
    .
    Last edited by Chrusion; 04-12-2007 at 11:04 AM.
    Dean A. Scott, mfa
    Senior 3D Animator and Graphic Design Illustrator, @ Astec, Inc.
    Owner / Lead Artist @ chrusion | FX

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