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Thread: Render Quality

  1. #16
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    I really hope this can be worked out soon. I ordered my copy of SE last week and its due in on Tuesday. I may leave it unopened and wait until I see a posting that this has been fixed. If it doesn't happen quick, I may return it and ask for a refund. I have an HDV feature I need to start work on ASAP and if I'm qetting a quality drop on uncompressed renders, then thats flat out unacceptable. I've been a happy Newtek customer since 1992, so I'm hoping Newtek can continue delivering quality service and knock this bug out ASAP.
    Ryan Carter

  2. #17
    Visually Developed Monkey cholo's Avatar
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    Another test

    Ok, I decided to take a more synthetic approach. I made a png with a grid pattern at 1920x1080 and dropped it into a 1920x1080 timeline to see what happened... Here's the original grid file and an extract from an uncompresed avi render in SpeedEDIT.
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  3. #18
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    I recieved my copy of Speed Edit today and....with Newteks assurance I could still return it....installed it. I did several render tests going from both HDV clips and the grid pattern cholo posted to uncompressed Targa files and I got pretty much the same results that everyone else did. I am not a happy camper
    Ryan Carter

  4. #19
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    So what's the conclusion in all of this? Is HDV/HD render quality not up to par in SE?
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  5. #20

    Looking for a solution

    I too have been looking at test charts and can report the following: When you capture a 1440 m2t in Speed Edit or Premiere they look the same... as one would expect. However, when you play this m2t back and output to a video monitor they look different... especially when you step through the files a frame at a time. With Premiere outputing via a Radeon 1950 all of the frames look the same. But when you output via the Radeon 1950 from Speed Edit the frames change... some are sharp and some are blurred... with the blurring occuring only on the vertical (horizontal lines are blurred not vertical ones). If "S" represents a sharp frame and "B" a blurred frame there seems to be a pattern: s,s,b,b,s,s,b,b,b,s,b,s,s,b,s,b,s,s,s,b,b,s,s,s,s, b,s,s,b,b,b,s,s,s,s,s,b. OK so that's not exactly a pattern... what is really interesting is that it is not the actual frame that is sharp or blurred, but the way the frames are read. If you start at the same frame as before you are just as likely to get the following pattern: b,b,s,s,b,b,s,s,b,b,s,s,b,b,s,s,s,s,b,s,b,b,b,b,s, s,b,s,b,s... almost the inverse of the previous time you did it. Someone thought that the problem was not in the "render" per se, but how Speed Edit was reading the m2t frames... and this is an observation I offer as a clue.

  6. #21
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    Just to follow up....I contacted Newtek tech support first thing this morning. I had a fleeting hope that there was some preset buried that all of us somehow magically had missed. The tech I spoke to was unaware of the issue, and said he would contact me after a he did a few test renders. That was 11 hours ago. This may be a case where silence speaks volumes.

    On a plus note, I did a few simple SD render tests and everything looked fine. No significant softening or artifacting, I've been a little too busy this week to run a full gamut of tests, but I'm wondering which resolutions are buggy. So far all I've tried are 1080 i and p at both square pixel and 1.333.... all showed degredation. However D1 seemed clean. Has onyone tried anything else?
    Ryan Carter

  7. #22
    Visually Developed Monkey cholo's Avatar
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    Same here, 1080 clips inside SD looks great (even posted some tests a while back, search the forum), 1080 clips inside 720p looks good too (subjectively, haven't done any proper tests vs anything else), but 1080 and beyond appear to have some sort of a "curse".

  8. #23
    Creator of BobFX for VT Bobt's Avatar
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    Well thats a show stopper for Indie work.

    Bob
    bobt_at_bobfx_com
    www.bobfx.com
    Bob Tasa

  9. #24
    Registered User KiloWatkins's Avatar
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    I have only worked SPEdit with HDV at 1080i and 720p. What are your HDTV settings as for resolution? IOW, I've a cheapo HDTV at 1280x768. imho, this could be an issue, when scaling HD to a low-end monitor.

    Not saying there is not a problem, just that I am not with HDV.
    GoodLuck KiloVideo

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  10. #25
    Has anyone heard back on this issue yet? To me this is something that should get the utmost priority from Newtek.
    Mick Haensler
    Director of Media Services
    The Fountains Wedding and Conference Center

  11. #26
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    I've actually called them several times. They'd give me the "We'll get back to you" reply each time. They only seemed to take interest in the issue when I called Customer Service and asked for refund information. I was able to confirm that the error was reproduced by Newtek Engineers and they are "working on it". From my conversation with them, I get the impression that their lack of response is because no one wants to admit the flaw until a fix is available. I suggested that a Newtek employee post an update or at least an aknowledgement of the issue on this thread, but it seems like internal politics make that unlikely. They appear to have taken a page out of the Microsoft handbook and I am deeply dissapointed in Newtek. Perhaps this flaw is not crictal to the SD or heavy-compression users, but for those of us who do higher-end commercial work, this renders the software essentially useless for HD. Perhaps some additional refund inquiries will speed up the process.
    Ryan Carter

  12. #27
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I think that most of us who have been around NewTek for quite awhile would be more inclined find a different answer, in the absence of a current reply here.

    I expect it has more to do with the fact that we are now in the runup to NAB; the engineering staff has likely been made aware of the issue, but this is the annual mad-month, when there simply isn't enough time in the day to do everything that needs to be done - esp. as this specific matter is likely something that will require some significant testing before a fix can confidently be issued.

    Sure, a little note would be nice, but the timing is bad. Knowing those involved, it really is inconceivable that a lack of care plays any part in things.
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  13. #28
    I would think the runup to NAB would make fixing this issue a priority. The last thing they would want is someone who has read this thread pose the question during a packed demo of SE on the showroom floor. As for me, my business model is changing from corporate and event work to more high end stuff. I'm going to be building a new edit bay to handle this work. SE was going to be at the heart of things. But with no response from Newtek and no word of a fix or even an acknowledgement of a problem. I'm beginning to look at other solutions. And once again....I DON'T WANT TO!! I WANT TO USE NEWTEK PRODUCTS!!!
    Mick Haensler
    Director of Media Services
    The Fountains Wedding and Conference Center

  14. #29
    Media Tech FSU robertn2k's Avatar
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    OK…so let me see if I have this straight. MLantern makes a post about the render quality in SE regarding HD on 3/15/2007 at 12:01PM. That would have been a Thursday. Several long time users chime in to help verify the bug and we have a flurry of posts as tests are performed and results posted. Some 20 posts later RCFX reports that he contacted Newtek Tech support to report the problem and get help. This post was dated 3/21/2007 11:17PM, which would have been a Wednesday. Support was not even aware of the problem, but agreed to check it out. 5 posts later RCFX tells us that he has contacted Newtek again several times, has gotten the royal runaround and only after inquiring about a refund did anyone take him seriously and acknowledge the bug had been reproduced. Further, this chain of events leads to the conclusion that Newtek is involved in a cover-up about the product and has now adopted the customer and tech support policies of Microsoft. WOW…….you know with a little polish you could sell this to one of the networks ;>)

    Seriously…..and I mean no disrespect but we really should be ashamed of ourselves. Yes I’ve included myself as sadly I’ve been guilty of the same kind of impatience, but really guys. We profess our affection for this company and the folks that work for it. We tout our years as loyal customers and users of their products with one breath and then accuse them of cover-ups and conspiracies. How about we demonstrate a little bit of the professionalism and basic civility we’re so quick to demand from Newtek and the people who work there. 11 days have gone by since MLantern started this thread. 7 of those are business days and based on the info in the thread Tech support has only been aware of this problem since Wednesday the 21st…….WOW three whole business days and we don’t have a fix…how about we give the team and Dr. Cross a chance to work their magic.

  15. #30
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    A bug, btw, which evidently made it thourgh the entire beta period as well as nearly three months of release before anyone even noticed it ... not to suggest it doesn't need fixing.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

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