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Thread: Bugs fixed in boxed version versus download

  1. #1
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Question Bugs fixed in boxed version versus download

    What bugs have been fixed in the shipping boxed version of SpeedEDIT 1.0 versus the download version?

    I heard there are some fixes for people that had Pinnacle software contamination on their systems and to make HDV render correctly for Sony send to tape output...

    But what about any CG bug fixes, like for slow text input acceptance or CG scroll flashing? Or the background render bug that makes normal storyboard DVE operations redo all background rendering from scratch with each new DVE you add?

    Thanks for any info... There are a few other bugs I've hit, but these were frankly showstopper bugs for me. I really can't do a project without a working CG, and I can't do HDV on my relatively older hardware without a working background render...
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

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    Eugene,

    It must be your system I have NONE of the problems you have one either of my two systems. One is a Core 2 duo Laptop and one is a dual 3.2 Xeon system so how about you quit bashing NewTek Buy Vegas and leave us the **** alone.

  3. #3
    Just Tryin' To Help...
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    Danic, if you'd been here more than a month you wouldn't be bashing Eugene; you'd know he's been, and is, one of NewTek's strongest supporters and a valuable contributor to these forums for years.

    His current system is based on dual 2.8 Xeons which is enough below your 3.2's and Core 2 Duo to make a difference in performance with SpeedEDIT's higher realtime performance requirements, particularly for HD. His discussions about Vegas and the other NLEs he's been testing stem simply from his need for capabilities that SpeedEDIT can't deliver at the present time, but is close to.

    We want and welcome anyone with positive contributions to make on these forums, but if you can't post without "****" then maybe you should go where such comments are welcome.
    SB Enterprises, Quincy, Illinois ~ in the backwoods of the US of A

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    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Actually, I did buy Vegas, because I needed what it can do for me now, but I still want SpeedEDIT to work well for me, too. I think it has a superior workflow and concept to other NLE solutions, but in my use, I'm hitting some bad bugs. I don't doubt that some haven't hit them, that doesn't mean they aren't there, or that others won't hit them, too.

    As for HDV, my system is older, as Scott described, but SpeedEDIT has the power to degrade gracefully with background rendering, so that shouldn't be a problem as long as I can play ONE stream of HDV fine, which I can. Newtek certainly has VERY efficient HDV playback in there. I've tested a number of different NLEs with HDV and Newtek's decoding is best by a significant margin. But there is a real bug there that currently prevents background rendering from working correctly in specific situations. So, for anyone with less than really high-end machines, they will hit it, if they use the storyboard for DVE placement, like I do. Granted, I'm sure a high end machine wouldn't hit this bug since it wouldn't need to use as much background rendering.

    As for the CG, being that VT[4]'s CG works perfectly for me on this system, and that the CG bugs are showing up in DV projects. I'm afraid I really can't see how it would be my system and not bugs in the software. Is it possible that some of the CG rewriting needs some new hardware to work right? I guess so, anything is possible.

    I simply go by the specs listed on the website for SpeedEDIT. For at least DV-only use, I am well within the specs, and my system has no problem playing 5 DV streams at a time in VT-EDIT or SpeedEDIT, which is very impressive. HDV, like I said, I need more BG rendering, as expected with my current hardware.

    So anyway, that's why I need to know if these bugs are fixed. Cause again, they have already mentioned two other bugs that were fixed, and those were important bugs, and I had hit one of them, too. So they definately ARE fixing bugs before the boxed version ships. Nothing unusual about this, no software in the world ships bug-free.

    I'm happy that SE works fine for you, I hope that it can for everyone, including me.

    And yes, I have been using Newtek products and supporting Newtek products for 15 years now. And I'm not afraid to point things out when I hit problems.

    I have no doubt that Newtek can fix these problems, they are a bunch of smart people, but they need to know about the problems to fix them. And I think fixing them before many people run into them would be the best solution from everyone's point of view.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

  5. #5
    Mirage 2D animator
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    Actually, I did buy Vegas, because I needed what it can do for me now, but I still want SpeedEDIT to work well for me, too.
    Eugene, I am growing frustrated with the way Vegas 7d plays my 720p clips. The longer any project becomes, the more image stuttering and slowdowns I encounter. Often the solution is a fresh reboot.

    My question to you is, do you encounter this as well in Vegas and if so, does SpeedEDIT perform better? I know I'll find out as soon as my SE arrives but since you are on the topic here I thought I might ask to have more to look forward to.
    -Paul

  6. #6
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulfierlinger
    Eugene, I am growing frustrated with the way Vegas 7d plays my 720p clips. The longer any project becomes, the more image stuttering and slowdowns I encounter. Often the solution is a fresh reboot.

    My question to you is, do you encounter this as well in Vegas and if so, does SpeedEDIT perform better? I know I'll find out as soon as my SE arrives but since you are on the topic here I thought I might ask to have more to look forward to.
    As long as you have a relatively new, fast machine, I would say without question SE will play your 720p clips better than Vegas 7. And, of course, SE does this at full quality/full frame rate all the time, which is a different paradigm from Vegas 7. (And comparing just HDV decoding based on CPU load for the same results from the same sources, SE is more efficient than Vegas 7.)

    Personally, my two formats are DVCAM(DV) and HDV2(1080i). On my current, relatively slower system, DVCAM(DV) is perfectly fine in SpeedEDIT for up to 5 streams. HDV2(1080i) is just capable in my system of one stream in SpeedEDIT. After that it will start audio and video stuttering, and need to background render to be a useful edit experience for me.

    In my experience with the 30-day demo of Vegas 7c that I tried about two months ago, I had very good results with HDV2. I honestly didn't see it slowing down/stuttering more as the project got longer. (I did a couple 1.5 to 2 hour HDV2 projects in it.) But realize, because Vegas has a different level of performance in mind, I'm looking for what it's made to do, not what SE can do. What I mean by this is that Vegas is NOT based on the paradigm of full quality/full frame rate. It is made for an "as real-time as possible without rendering" edit experience. It does this by dropping image quality (resolution) and frame rate of the video as needed in your edit preview, but it will NEVER drop audio frames. For me, it is a lot more jarring to my edit process to hear audio stuttering while watching video stuttering versus just video quality down and video stuttering while audio stays continuous and in sync with what I'm seeing. I simply can't edit the former way and would need to wait for background rendering, while the Vegas way, for what I'm doing, I can continue working without my editing process being delayed. Anything I need to see in full quality to check something, just a quick CTRL-B and I render a region to RAM to play back at full quality. Oh, and on my system, I can play a single stream of HDV2 in Vegas 7 at preview quality at the full frame rate.

    So for my older, slower, hardware; Vegas 7 is a better choice for HDV2 editing, based on my experiences with it so far. But again, with a different "edit experience" as well.

    With a new hardware system, I would expect SE to be a better experience with HDV2 or HDV1(720p) playback.

    With the exception of the caveots that led to my starting of this thread, of course.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

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    Mirage 2D animator
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    Thanks, Eugene. I have a new machine built for large HD volume with an NVidia Quadro Video Card and can't play more than a minute or two of 1080p on Vegas without stuttering. Real time picture playback is more important to me than sound because as an animator I can never be certain whether my inbetweens are off or if it's the computer's performance. Vegas is helpful that it dynamically shows the current frame rate. Does SE do this too?

    After your explanation then, the arrival of SE should hold high hopes for me. My professional weakness is that I have never spent sufficient time to thoroughly learn the ropes of all NLE editing. I just assemble clips and watch what my drawings are up to; akin to film editing.

    Since I don't work for clients as an editing service I never need, or have a desire to learn, many technical advantages of a system because I never use special FX. So there is always the likelihood that if something doesn't work properly for me it's because I'm missing the awareness of some gadget buried in a wilderness of undecipherable nicknames and terminology -- another reason to be hopeful about SE if it is anything like people here have described; intuitive and easy to learn.

    I wonder if marketing people are aware of the probable high number of people like me; professionals yes, but not professional editors. For me the ease of grasping the first ropes of an NLE are more important than the colors of a logo, but that's on another thread.
    -Paul

  8. #8
    We've got it simple. Jim_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danic101
    how about you quit bashing NewTek Buy Vegas and leave us the **** alone.

    Wow.... real classy and professional.

    Newtek wouldn't be where it is today if it were not for Eugene and the HUGE amount of extra work he does in everyday reporting and Beta testing.


    And you are .... who....?

  9. #9
    Production Wizard radams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulfierlinger
    Thanks, Eugene. I have a new machine built for large HD volume with an NVidia Quadro Video Card and can't play more than a minute or two of 1080p on Vegas without stuttering. Real time picture playback is more important to me than sound because as an animator I can never be certain whether my inbetweens are off or if it's the computer's performance. Vegas is helpful that it dynamically shows the current frame rate. Does SE do this too?

    After your explanation then, the arrival of SE should hold high hopes for me. My professional weakness is that I have never spent sufficient time to thoroughly learn the ropes of all NLE editing. I just assemble clips and watch what my drawings are up to; akin to film editing.

    Since I don't work for clients as an editing service I never need, or have a desire to learn, many technical advantages of a system because I never use special FX. So there is always the likelihood that if something doesn't work properly for me it's because I'm missing the awareness of some gadget buried in a wilderness of undecipherable nicknames and terminology -- another reason to be hopeful about SE if it is anything like people here have described; intuitive and easy to learn.

    I wonder if marketing people are aware of the probable high number of people like me; professionals yes, but not professional editors. For me the ease of grasping the first ropes of an NLE are more important than the colors of a logo, but that's on another thread.
    Hi Paul,

    You may have issues with your hard drive configuration....which would then be the reasoning for the stuttering...can you drop me an email with your specs...number of drives, kind, speed, do they have NCQ, and how are they raided ...

    I'll try to help you maximize their perfomance if possible.

    Cheers,
    Ray Adams
    FX and Production Supervisor

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    Mirage 2D animator
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    will do, thanks Ray...
    -Paul

  11. #11
    Production Wizard radams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danic101
    Eugene,

    It must be your system I have NONE of the problems you have one either of my two systems. One is a Core 2 duo Laptop and one is a dual 3.2 Xeon system so how about you quit bashing NewTek Buy Vegas and leave us the **** alone.
    You may not like what Eugene says...but you don't need to be disrespectful...and nasty...

    Eugene has given alot to the entire NT community and NT.
    If you disagree then simply state that ...not be a jerk about it.

    If you've noticed both Steve Bowie and myself have stated our disageements or commentary on Eugene's sometime not so flattering thoughts...but there is NO need to be rude to anyone here. And I'm even being respectful to you as well....

    Please, if you don't like a comment, say so respectfully or just move on.

    BTW, Eugene does make many thoughts that have merit and should be looked into...along with giving very valuable information that can help us all !!

    Cheers,
    Last edited by radams; 01-25-2007 at 07:57 AM.
    Ray Adams
    FX and Production Supervisor

  12. #12
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radams
    You may not like what Eugene says...but you don't need to be disrespectful...and nasty...
    Although I agree, let's give the new guy some slack. All he has seen Eugene post so far is his thoughts on the shortcoming of SE and how he likes Vegas. It is understandable that it would appear that Eugene is not on NewTek's side. Fortunately, Eugene is being very tolerant (way to go Eugene), and not reacting badly.

    Danic101 it's good to see that your posts are generally supportive - don't worry about Eugene. Once NewTek fixes a few features in SE he will be NewTek's biggest fan again.

  13. #13
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    See the big smile in his avatar? (yours is nice too, Gordon - but you've put on weight since I saw you last ... and, maybe a little jaundice?)
    Last edited by SBowie; 01-25-2007 at 08:19 AM.
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  14. #14
    XDCAM HD production ScorpioProd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulfierlinger
    Thanks, Eugene. I have a new machine built for large HD volume with an NVidia Quadro Video Card and can't play more than a minute or two of 1080p on Vegas without stuttering. Real time picture playback is more important to me than sound because as an animator I can never be certain whether my inbetweens are off or if it's the computer's performance. Vegas is helpful that it dynamically shows the current frame rate. Does SE do this too?
    Oh yeah, so you should be fine with SE. And I can definately see that for animation, smooth video playback at full quality/full frame rate would be most important to you. No need for SE to display current frame rate, since it will always play at the true frame rate, or else stutter when overloaded, but at that point I would recommend background rendering to prevent that.

    I think SpeedEDIT is a product aimed EXACTLY at people like you: Professional media people, but not professional video editors.
    Eugene
    Scorpio Productions

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    Mirage 2D animator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScorpioProd
    I think SpeedEDIT is a product aimed EXACTLY at people like you: Professional media people, but not professional video editors.
    Interesting, actually. In that case maybe it should have a more attractive logo (half-kidding ) So is this the direction towards which SE is heading; independent and global camera moves, no need to composite layers in Mirage, Mirage or Photoshop or AE directly connected with SE so that SE would be the editing portion of let's say Mirage while one would be drawing in Mirage -- can this be done do you think?
    -Paul

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