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Thread: Displacement maps in modeller...

  1. #1
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    Displacement maps in modeller...

    In layout, you can specify a displacement map for the whole object, but is it possible to specify a displacement map for an individual material? Can the map be specified in Modeller?

    Dave

  2. #2
    What you can do is make a uv or weight map in modeler, then apply your displacement to the whole object in Layout , and use the uv or a weight map-type gradient set to alpha to matte out the displacement in certain areas.
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  3. #3
    Worms no more! Free fun! Dodgy's Avatar
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    You can't use a map as a displacement map directly, but you can apply it in the bump channel, and then in the Items properties panel make the object use the Bump as a displacement...
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    Ah, so the bump map method is the only way to do a per-material displacement map in LW? Thanks for the info

    Dave

  5. #5
    Working Monkey StereoMike's Avatar
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    have you seen, what the silo-guys will release with 2.0?


    you can draw displacements onto modells to get details like veins etc. look like "zbrush light" to me.

    Can we have it, too Mr Newtek?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by StereoMike
    have you seen, what the silo-guys will release with 2.0?


    you can draw displacements onto modells to get details like veins etc. look like "zbrush light" to me.

    Can we have it, too Mr Newtek?
    That's been do-able in LW for a years now!

    Make a Morph that fattens the object
    Paint on the base object with Airbrush set to the Morph map
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  7. #7
    Working Monkey StereoMike's Avatar
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    Noo, that soo last century

    Look at the picture, you can see the splinecage of the arm, and they brush it ON TOP. In modeler you would need actual geometry to deform it like that, and that would boost your polycount.

  8. #8
    Wait, you're saying LW can't do it because it did it a long time ago? Unless it's normal mapped or bump, it is a higher poly count. There's no other way. When you do it in Z-brush, it's a higher poly count.
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  9. #9
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    What he means is that painting deformation in Modeler is on the vertex level. With a subd mesh, there is more geometry there, you just can't edit it without real vertices. True displacement mapping doesn't have this problem.
    Are my spline guides showing?

  10. #10
    Working Monkey StereoMike's Avatar
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    thanks, yes, in silo's displacement painting you won't edit the subd vertices, but a control grid.

    From the video:
    "Silo's displacement painting works by interactivly displacing the surface on different sudivision levels. The grid has a 25-polygon control mesh. Note that you can always still edit the base mesh."

    So it's neither normal mapped or bumped but something like "adaptive subdivisions for modeler".
    If 9.0 get adaptive subds in layout, than it must be possible in modeler, or what?

    link to silo video:
    http://www.nevercenter.com/videos/in...splacement.mov

  11. #11
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    The program(s) that I am adapting to lightwave include a 3D painting package, where you can paint direcly onto the model. In the case of displacement maps, you can paint veins, etc. It currently has two separate channels for bump maps and displacement maps. For lighwavers, we'll have to emphasize that they should use the bump map, and then choose the "use bump map as displacement map" option.

    Dave

  12. #12
    Adaptive subdivision is the process of only subdividing where it's needed to keep the surface smooth. Maya does this but the Silo video shows the mesh fully subdivided at all times. It's only slightly different from what LW can do, controlling vertices within the subd ploygon.
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  13. #13
    Working Monkey StereoMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toby
    Adaptive subdivision is the process of only subdividing where it's needed to keep the surface smooth. Maya does this but the Silo video shows the mesh fully subdivided at all times. It's only slightly different from what LW can do, controlling vertices within the subd ploygon.
    Man, show me how you do the things seen in the video without raising the number of vertices, and I stop bothering. It's not a simple bumpmap.

    Thing is, you can't do it right now, regardless, "how close" lightwave is.
    you have to implement a way to paint displacement onto the object in modeler.
    You're right, lw could handle it (think of the one-poly landscape in the content folder), but right now, you have no way to get it done like silo.

    Here's the idea to get it done in LW:

    1. we need displacement maps in modeler.
    2. either you would make a uv map for yourself or modeler does it in case you start painting a displacement map.
    3. you start a tool similar to "uv_chalk" but this time you won't paint with colors onto the uv map, but with displacement, with realtime openGL.

    Hardest thing is the "displacement in modeler" part, I guess. That can only be done by newtek.

  14. #14
    If you subdivide the mesh to the same density as in Silo, you can paint the same displacement via the morph. The only difference is that in LW you have to add a morph, and you can't go back and manipulate the low-res mesh. But you can do it. You can also use the Airbrush to paint a weight map, which is just as good as a displacement map, and use that with most of the modify tools, or with a gradient in layout.
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  15. #15
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    I believe that the whole point to having a displacement map is that you can paint all of these small details, without adding additional geometry. You can always subdivide an object to have 1,000,000 polygons and then morph the tiny details, but then you get another set of issues such as RAM consumption, slow rendering, etc. The good thing about a real displacement map is that it acts just like a texture map, where you only see the fine details when you render it.

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