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Thread: Kray

  1. #736
    @silverw: How many polys has the horse in the shelf? Maybe it's the old "teapot in stadium" problem...maybe increasing octree depth makes a huge difference in this one.

    I've rendered the sponza scene, but somehow it comes out a bit darker...the HDR you posted wan't exactly the name it was looking for, maybe you used a slightly brighter one?

    attached image is original size (frame 7)...
    dual Athlon XP 1800+ (1533MHz), 1GB RAM
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  2. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlw
    Ingo:
    Just a guessing about hdri's. Hdri's in preview window is with gamma 2.2 i think so when you load the image into pshop i guess it loads it with 1.0.
    I will talk to Gregorz about this to and if it is as mentioned above there might be ide'a to change preview to linear 1.0.
    Yes that's it... If you set 2.2 in Kray and LD image format you'll get the same render as with HDR. In PS CS2 you can correct this with exposure tool.

  3. #738
    Registered User silverlw's Avatar
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    Ingo:
    Talked to Gregorz very hasty before he went away for Xmas. He doesnt think more photons will solve your banding. He suggested that you should lower your fg mindistance so the fg samples would come closer to eachother but to be sure fg samples would be helpful. Could you post how your fg samples look like by enabling "show samples" under FG tab. Choose Strong samples.
    You can also try to turn off Irradiance caching completly and render with minvalue800. Therefore it will use 800 samples uniform everywhere and i dont think you would see any banding then.
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  4. #739
    Registered User silverlw's Avatar
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    Lynx: Youre right. I have talked to Gregorz about the slow rendering shelf/horse and he said it was because of low octree value (def 10) He thinks of raising it as default to 20 wich should be sufficient for almost everything but asked me to test it properly before we change it default. In old Kray it took longer time to startup but now in 1.6 it seem to impact very little. So to all of you millionpoly renderers out there, Turn up octree!
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  5. #740
    I'm still convinced that kd-trees are the better choice for geometry, they adapt better than the "typical" octree design (each cell divided in the center, which seems to be the case when just the parts with the horse are slow), and it's easy enough to make them automatically decide which depth yields performance close to the optimum.
    I think i'll try to have some tech talk with Gregorz after christmas

    As much as i'd like to write my own renderer, i'd not have the time to get it to the features of Kray as hobby project anytime soon...but i think sooner or later i'll do it anyway.

  6. #741
    Lurking Member brtk's Avatar
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    Hi, here's another test after a sleepless night of tweaking, much better but at the cost of render time(caused probably by my poor understanding of settings).
    I just adjusted some levels in PS, you can see banding on walls...

    Clickie for Settings

    Thanks for advice Silver, I used recived mode which yelded better results. I realized also that light cone angle/soft angle must be tweaked according to each other, f.ex my spot angle in this scene is ca 5 deg and soft cone angle is 0.5 deg if I increase softcone, the lightspot disappeares. I think I should go back again to simple room with a ball to learn myself how everything works.
    btw, of course I would like to up the scene but it's so big, does anyone know a free file hosting service that accept big files(the lwo itself is 5 meg)?


    Merry Xmas, Wesolych Swiat och Goo Jul på er

  7. #742
    Registered User silverlw's Avatar
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    I cant see any direct faulty settings but a few things you could try to get a better faster result.

    Turn off Pathtracing (0) Since you use lightmaps and a very detailed irradiance.
    I cant imagine you have lighleaks do you?

    Turn on FG reflection/refraction/transparency since they dont impact negatively on speed in 1.6 also turn everything on in lw renderpanel and 24 recursions.

    Gi resolution 5 meter could be ok but you can see if GI size is ok by enabling "FG show samples /strong". If it's very sparse with dot's around your objects, lower GISize. If it's very dense like blobs, raise it.
    A speedup tip for experimenting with FG is to first ONLY render out the irradiance (precomputed) with save gi enabled. After that Switch to photonmapping and switch to Load GI. The Lightmap/irradiance will then be precomputed/loaded from disk and you then only add the finalgathering. Now you can experiment with different FG values and testrender very quickly.

    Spatial tolerance 0.3, did 0.1 give to dense fg?
    You can also try B/D 300-500-800 to see how it affects your FG more dependant of contrast's in light.

    You dont HAVE to use spotlights for sun anymore, an arealight is also perfect to use together with 1.6 since we use lightmapping and not photons. Experiment and see what suits you best.

    The image attached was rendered quickly by Jure since he also was qurious about the room. He produced this quick testlighting. Ao! Stop hitting me Jure!

    Edit: You can mail me the scene and we up it on KrayForum.
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    Last edited by silverlw; 12-23-2005 at 02:22 PM.
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  8. #743
    normally i am different ingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlw
    ....You can also try to turn off Irradiance caching completly and render with minvalue800. Therefore it will use 800 samples uniform everywhere and i dont think you would see any banding then.
    Hohoho siverlw, that were my settings. But i already changed things now to see how lighting looks in different setups. The odd thing is that whenever i use a HDR image for lighting the resulting picture is waay darker than the picture in the Kray renderwindow, btw i always render to hdr.

    So merry Xmas and i hope you found many presents under the octree, err.... the XMas tree
    ingo erik moltzen - virtual image maker --- www.im-graphics.com

  9. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by ingo
    Hmm, another oddity. Is there a limitation in the demoversion since i can only load 30 objects/layers in LW, if i add one more Kray always crashes.
    I can confirm this, very nasty one, I tried to solve these "freezes" in the area of surfaces, but it is the number of objects.
    Most of the easier-to-find bugs already fixed in Kray 1.601, cool!

  10. #745
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Maxwell-style rendering in Kray! It's really not all that bad time, I think, considering this was done with path tracing with 4000 ray samples. Probably overkill, but I was going away anyway. I messed up a few settings, though. Not enough samples on the blurred reflections, as you can see. A few other mistakes, I guess. I'll have to try this again, though.
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    Are my spline guides showing?

  11. #746
    Registered User silverlw's Avatar
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    A bit dark but it has it's qualitys. How many bounces? Could you increase the environment a bit to let more light in? You really need 4000 raysamples?
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  12. #747
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Ten bounces. It's still rather noisy, so 4000 ray samples might be needed. I suppose it might be the blurred reflections that are noisy, though. It was a fun experiment, but honestly, how often do you want to make 20 hour renderings?
    Are my spline guides showing?

  13. #748
    normally i am different ingo's Avatar
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    Looks good, with maxwell grain but otherwise nice clean walls. But if the floor is burned out it has to be much brighter inside. Have you used an area light in the window ?
    ingo erik moltzen - virtual image maker --- www.im-graphics.com

  14. #749
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    The burn out and the darkness is because I saved the image as an HDR, and played around with it in CinePaint. Then I saved it as a tiff and opened it in Photoshop to save it as a JPEG (I only have CS1, so no HDR in Pshop for me). However, it looked a bit dark in Photoshop, so I changed the levels a little. I guess I didn't do a particularly good job at it, since the JPEG got all screwed up anyway. CinePaint, my browser and Photoshop all use different gamma, it seems. Oh well.
    Are my spline guides showing?

  15. #750
    normally i am different ingo's Avatar
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    Are you sure you haven't forgotten any program ? I also save as HDR image (which is always darker than the preview) and use Lightwave for moving the black and white points. Next i save it in PS format for... PS.
    ingo erik moltzen - virtual image maker --- www.im-graphics.com

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