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Thread: Dynamics in Game-engine beats LW

  1. #1
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Exclamation Dynamics in Game-engine beats LW

    I just looked at some videos of the new Unreal game engine, and WOW the dynamics looks better and more stable than LW's, but in realtime.

    Look at video 3 at this site!
    http://www.1up.com/do/download?cId=3138759

    NewTek PLEASE do upgrade the dynamics so it's faster and more stable.
    When I say stable I don't mean that LW crashes I mean the objects that scatter around when using dynamics.

  2. #2
    Dynamics in games is alot more limited. They allow certain dynamics with certain items, and since they are dealing with a specific situation, they can optimize just for that situation.

    Vincenzo

  3. #3
    I am Jack's cold sweat Karmacop's Avatar
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    Game engines cheat a lot and don't do per poly collision.

  4. #4
    Vincenzo and Karmacop have valid points. The Game Dynamics I have used work great for low poly game content but would choke on a characters cape on one of my characters. This is not to say LW's dynamics can't be improved....just be sure you are comparing apples to apples.

  5. #5
    Foot in mouth wacom's Avatar
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    Zstream does have a point though. It would be nice if we had the option to get either more accurate Dynamics, or go with something more like a game engine version. Sometimes you need a ner-simulation, and sometimes you just need a 300 foot monster destroying Tokyo in real time.

    Havok is kind of like this...great for manythings...but for simulation? Still it would be fine for a lot of stuff.

  6. #6
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Something along the lines of Zspheres along with dynamics could work really really well. At least it'd be a heck of a lot faster than per-poly dynamics on complex models.

  7. #7
    proton great answer ! nice to see always optimistic answers like "This is not to say LW's dynamics can't be improved....just be sure you are comparing apples to apples."
    new web page up www.null.hr

  8. #8
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    I was certain that I would get answer like this and you are all right.

    Maybe game engines cheat and is not sutiable for real -life simulations, but then Lw isn't either.

    Have you all looked at the video??
    If I could get some lowpoly objects to react an behave like that in LW I would be more happy with that dynamicengine than the one we have today. (I talking about HardFX when I say dynamics)

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ztreem
    I was certain that I would get answer like this and you are all right.

    Maybe game engines cheat and is not sutiable for real -life simulations, but then Lw isn't either.

    Have you all looked at the video??
    If I could get some lowpoly objects to react an behave like that in LW I would be more happy with that dynamicengine than the one we have today. (I talking about HardFX when I say dynamics)
    I certainly agree. Not so much that I'm a gamer, but in comparison to other programs (or even Impact!) LW's dynamics are slow, clunky and awkward. It's strange to find that even something simple as dropping a view gemstones on a simple floor/ plane with proper rebound (yeah, sounds cheesy, but I had to do it) seems nearly impossible in LW. Did it in Maya and could adjust everything while playing back my scene in realtime... Try that in LW and feel the pain. And yeah, once more: There was/ is absolutely no need to implement hard bodies as a displacement effect/ custom object which makes it impossible to properly bake motion and export it easily to other tools.

    Mylenium
    [Pour Mylène, ange sur terre]

  10. #10
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    There was/ is absolutely no need to implement hard bodies as a displacement effect/ custom object which makes it impossible to properly bake motion and export it easily to other tools.
    I agree! Imagine having every object move and rotate as normal opjects instead of the displacement thing, then we could alter and change the simulation in graph editor instead of using EditFX.
    But I guess that this is the kind of software you get when you integrate 3rd party workarounds into the software. Please don't flame me for this.

    PS. I'm not a gamer either, I just looked at the video's for fun and was amazed of the dynamics.
    Last edited by Ztreem; 03-11-2005 at 03:26 AM.

  11. #11
    impressive demo,no question about it.
    Chris Burkert

    ArchiPacked models

  12. #12
    Super Member Red_Oddity's Avatar
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    They use this dynamic engine : Download the Rocket demo and be amazed : http://www.ageia.com/novodex.html

    And it really IS an amazing engine...and this thing isn't just doable in games...this dynamic engine is so incredibly powerfull (especially combined with the special CPU that is build for it) it makes me wonder why not ONE dynamic engine in professional software can't even come close to the calculation speeds shown here...

    With the custom build cpu (for game video cards) this engine can push 30.000 rigid/hard body dynamic objects in real-time...
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  13. #13
    Registered User Para's Avatar
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    There's a lot of valid points in this thread already so I'm not going to say anything about that but I'll tell ya what I think of the evolution of dynamics.

    I think that dynamics were done in wrong order: First the super-accurate systems were made (those that take anything from days to weeks to calculate) and only then someone kinda came up with the idea that this stuff could be done in realtime to some extent by adding certain kind of optimizations and approximations to the algorithms. Those two keywords were remembered only after people already had the product which wasn't a good thing since usually those two keywords play a big role in the early stages of finishing the product. Basically what for example Havok, meqon, ODE and Ageia now are is what the whole dynamics system should have been from the start.

  14. #14
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    They use this dynamic engine : Download the Rocket demo and be amazed : http://www.ageia.com/novodex.html
    I've tested it and WOW! Now it's not game-engine beats LW now it's game-engine beats the hell out of LW!

  15. #15
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Para
    I think that dynamics were done in wrong order: First the super-accurate systems were made (those that take anything from days to weeks to calculate) and only then someone kinda came up with the idea that this stuff could be done in realtime to some extent by adding certain kind of optimizations and approximations to the algorithms.
    Not really, if you consider where most of the research and algorithms come from. "dynamics" have been used in engineering for over a decade, from the simulation of buildings and materials under stress to virtuall crash tests (which still take a cluster to computer, and are nowhere close to realtime).
    It is usual quite easy to go back when someone revolutionized the field and say: Oh, they should have done it like that from the beginning

    Cheers,
    Mike

    P.S. YOWZA !!!! Post #2000, time to open a bottle
    Last edited by Lightwolf; 03-11-2005 at 06:00 AM.

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