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Thread: rigging section please

  1. #1

    rigging section please

    We should have a rigging section in the forum..

  2. #2
    The idea is nice but some times when you split up forums to much you get less coverage from users. There are so many catagorys you could break up this forum into. By the time you do that you will be having one on one conversations or worse none at all. Using search and users making well defined topic is really the best way to go.

  3. #3
    you're right..

    It's just that It's lightwave's weak-point and it'd be great to have more ideas shared about this aspect of it..

  4. #4
    Partially Baked blabberlicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooby
    you're right..

    It's just that It's lightwave's weak-point and it'd be great to have more ideas shared about this aspect of it..

    I think weaK point it right - but I think you'll find that any formal kind of area would decend into a pit of despair, because if you read many posts by experienced riggers, they will bemoan the problems associated with doing any serious character work in LW.

    Not impossible (read my lips, before anyone jumps in) - just a pain in the butt (read Jin Chong's thread about 7.5 IK). Add to that the dopetrack, which is an inconsistent mess, offering the sort of lame functionality I would expect on a 90's cellphone - not a professional 3D app.

    That may sound harsh - but try using it for a few days and you'll probably be a shocked as me. UNDOs are only available for keys that remain selected in the DTrack - this defies belief, I've used motionbuilder, C4d and they have managed to offer what has to be THE most basic functionality. The LW8 Bone tools don't seem to have any contrained movement (correct me if I'm wrong), and no means (other than reloading the scene) of UNDOING.

    Crazy.

    What really galls me is that, for mac users, the already needlessly convoluted rigging process doesn't even have the benefit of the New Bone Tools' which have been broken since the 8 release. Fixing these doesn't seem to have been high on the list of NT's priorities, and I was ultra disappointed that after the update, NT appeared to have forgotten they weren't working - even though it was one of the first bugs that got reported and was the subject of a particualrly instense thread, in which LW users were asked by NT not to criticise the code. (?)

    I recently got a email back from the gracious Scott (mac guy), which did not give me any more idea of when I can see a fix. I can't understand why NT can't contact he author and get it fixed? Without these tools working, what am I supposed to do? Spend hours/day rebuilding rigs? Because it's impossible to scale or twist bones in layout?

    C'mon!

    I'm trying to make a living here, guys! So can you give me the tools to do the job?


    So please NT, I'm not criticizing the code - I'm sure it fine - when it's made to work :-)
    When that happens perhaps, I could contribute some ideas about how to use it...



    Thank you
    Steve Williams | d i g f r e a k | UK

    Mac: Dual 2.5GHZ G5, 2g Ram, ATi 128 OSX 10.3.7

    PC: AMD 64 X2 Dual Core +3800, Quadro FX 1300, 2 GiG Ram

  5. #5
    Well. It's weak, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.. There is a lot you can do with its limited resources with a bit of ingenuity..
    There's no point sitting and waiting

  6. #6
    Partially Baked blabberlicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooby
    Well. It's weak, but it's not as bad as you're making it out to be.. There is a lot you can do with its limited resources with a bit of ingenuity..
    There's no point sitting and waiting
    Sorry to sound harsh, but I find comments like that infuriating.

    When you consider that Bone tools were included to patch 'the hole' in workflow between rigs>modeller >layout, and to make re-rigging possible then I think it's perfectly fair comment to ask for those tools to work - especially when the 'workarounds' involve hours & hours of re rigging.

    How much 'ingenuity' would it take for NT to:

    a) contact the author of the plug in
    b) ask him/her to make it work
    c) make sure it works before they release it
    d) post it for download


    If that's too ambitious, then I guess I've misunderstood the whole deal about customer service.
    Steve Williams | d i g f r e a k | UK

    Mac: Dual 2.5GHZ G5, 2g Ram, ATi 128 OSX 10.3.7

    PC: AMD 64 X2 Dual Core +3800, Quadro FX 1300, 2 GiG Ram

  7. #7
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    Im pretty sure Newtek is getting those things fixed. Also whether or not LWs rigging tools are weak or not is debateable obviously. I can pick apart various aspects of any application. My suggestion is that:
    1. Send suggestions in to newtek on what you think could be improved.
    2. Learn how to rig in Lightwave
    3. Look at motion builder, messiah etc.

    I dont feel that LWs character tools are as weak as some suggest. I use them pretty successfully on a routine basis.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SplineGod
    I dont feel that LWs character tools are as weak as some suggest. I use them pretty successfully on a routine basis.
    Do you use them on a Mac?

  9. #9
    Super Member SplineGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midosujisen
    Do you use them on a Mac?
    I sure dont but Im pretty sure, as I said, that Newtek is fixing whatever issues there are on the Mac.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SplineGod
    I sure dont but Im pretty sure, as I said, that Newtek is fixing whatever issues there are on the Mac.
    Exactly, but when the fix comes months later, you might be able to understand/smpathize with the frustration many of us Mac people face. You're able to do what you want on a PC, where there are even more work arounds and/or bugs.

    Even though Lightwave comes with two disks, one for a PC and one for Mac, Lightwave wasn't created equal. Depending on your platform, you have many more advantages or disadvantages with the same program.

  11. #11
    Sorry to sound harsh, but I find comments like that infuriating. etc..
    Blabberlicious.. you have missed my point entirely..

    I know that lightwave has a lot of disappointing half-arsed new features. I, for one wish that the time spent on developing IK boost was spent on their original system. I find it useless, however much Splinegod sings it's praises as a valuable addtition.
    I don't bother with the new rig tools much, and I don't ever use skelegons I find them more hassle than they're worth, plus they don't work well with many of my rigs, as I often use floating bones and bizarre hierarchies to achieve certain ends.

    I have complained loads about all the feebleness of 8's so-called animation features.. And that's not the point of this thread

    My Point was......

    Given what we have.. It would be good to have a place where animators and riggers can share ideas to create the ultimate set up, or at least some good workable ones.

    for example.. I have just created an XSI style spine rig which I think revolutionises animating characters in lightwave. It's in tips and tricks.. but I think the 'tips and tricks' section is a bit vague..

    Plus a few weeks back I made an IK/FK blender and posted that..

    It would be good to have a place where ideas and resources can be easily accessed by us that are interested in rigging rather than hidden amongst tips and tricks on lighting, texturing etc etc

    perhaps there is another forum site that has this?

  12. #12
    Partially Baked blabberlicious's Avatar
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    pooby:
    Pls don't get me wrong. I have no objections to a rigging section, at all - good idea.
    - and the stuff you are developing looks very interesting. Makes sense to have place to nail that stuff. I find Spinquads dynamics forum a great example of a focused forum.

    But (to sidetrack again :-) I just think it depressing that a very large aspect of the the new layout rigging enhancements can't be used by mac users - which means we can't experiment and contribute to the development of the application we own.

    I know it's irritating for PC users out there to hear this, but in this case, it's a whole family of plug-ins that plain don't work.

    We mac guys wanna play too!
    Steve Williams | d i g f r e a k | UK

    Mac: Dual 2.5GHZ G5, 2g Ram, ATi 128 OSX 10.3.7

    PC: AMD 64 X2 Dual Core +3800, Quadro FX 1300, 2 GiG Ram

  13. #13
    Ok, thanks..

    I just joined spinquad

  14. #14
    Partially Baked blabberlicious's Avatar
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    Yo Pooby,
    Speaking of rigging - ahave you used Kung Foo Tools? I'm having a problem Mirroring Skelegons.

    Example:

    1. Select a Right arm Skelegons chain- all named with 'Bone_R_001', etc
    2. KungFu>SKGManager>Mirror Bones
    3. Accept Naming convention
    4. Bones are mirrored and renamed - nice!
    5. Open Up DStorms Skelegon editor
    6. The Mirrored bones names haven't been renamed? 2 sets of _R bones
    7. Close and re open object, then check the names in Skel Tree of Skel Editor - they have reverted back to the old names???

    You getting this?
    Steve Williams | d i g f r e a k | UK

    Mac: Dual 2.5GHZ G5, 2g Ram, ATi 128 OSX 10.3.7

    PC: AMD 64 X2 Dual Core +3800, Quadro FX 1300, 2 GiG Ram

  15. #15
    I've not used them.. I don't really use skelegons. sorry.

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