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Thread: LW2018 documentation

  1. #1
    Registered User accom's Avatar
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    LW2018 documentation

    Hi guys!

    I'm old-school, and I always have user guides, manuals etc. at hand. I'm still on LW 2018 and I don't plan to upgrade... so, since most of the SW nowadays is sold online, the manuals have changed from paper to digital. As long as they were pdfs, I didn't really mind. Even this https://docs.lightwave3d.com/display...LightWave+2018 is still good enough for me... but I'm constantly worried it could be removed. So, what is the best way to "download" the whole page and keep it functional?

    Thanx!
    ----==== May the Force be with you! ====----

  2. #2
    LightWave Fan Boi
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    You might want to start here.

    Ben Vost created a PDF of LW 2020 but not any earlier versions, but if you continue reading through the thread there are suggestions on ways to make your own copy of the LW 2018 manual.

  3. #3
    Registered User accom's Avatar
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    Thank you! I didn't even realise that there is "export PDF" there... I did it and it's a fully functional pdf. Awesome!
    ----==== May the Force be with you! ====----

  4. #4
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    "I don't plan to upgrade"..... "but I'm constantly worried it could be removed."


    By not upgrading (multiplied by thousands of people thinking the same way), you make it come true..



    *) doubtful.. it is a sign that you don't think.. or you are not true LightWaver.. because your actions will destroy LightWave application and annihilate entire community..


    ps. Don't take it personally.
    Last edited by Sensei; 12-02-2020 at 10:56 AM.

  5. #5
    LightWave Fan Boi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    *) doubtful.. it is a sign that you don't think.. or you are not true LightWaver.. because your actions will destroy LightWave application and annihilate entire community..


    ps. Don't take it personally.
    sigh.... Dude, it's these types of comments that help kill the LW community.

    It's not cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    Dude, it's these types of comments that help kill the LW community.

    It's not cool.
    Telling the truth, even the most unpleasant one, isn't cool? The truth is always unpleasant to hear ...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Telling the truth, even the most unpleasant one, isn't cool? The truth is always unpleasant to hear ...
    It's true that the truth can be unpleasant to hear, but only when it's asked for.

    And no-one asked for your "opinion". And opinion is not necessarily the equivalent of truth.

  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Telling the truth, even the most unpleasant one, isn't cool? The truth is always unpleasant to hear ...
    the truth is that it isnīt customers that is killing of lightwave, the foremost responsible for it...that is the management and development within Newtek and Vizrt, not the customers lack of faith initially, itīs may be uncomfortable as a truth, but you are welcome to
    provide another "alternative truth"

    The customers do not think about..."how can we best destroy Lightwave" and thus gather in a mass event to avoid upgrading, they do so because of the lack of faith, roadmaps, and lack of development and releases..lack of hope simply, that responsibility can only be rooted where Lightwave is managed and developed.

    voting for the masses to embark on a ship that has a lot of holes in it and then to journey over the big seas, that is suicidal, if the ship builders have a plan to fix the holes, they also need to show they are willing to do so, and also tell us where the ship is going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    It's true that the truth can be unpleasant to hear, but only when it's asked for.

    And no-one asked for your "opinion". And opinion is not necessarily the equivalent of truth.
    My dear friend, it is not an opinion. It is mathematics. It is an algorithm.


    If one programmer earns $5000 *) per month. And there is 5 *) programmers in a team. There is 12 months. $5000 * 5 * 12 = $300k per year costs.
    If each upgrade costs $500 *). There is needed $300k / $500 = 600 people who will pay for upgrades each year, to break even.
    Where is the income for the company? The more upgrades/sales needed.
    Where is the marketing cost? The more upgrades/sales needed.
    (and so on, so on, with the other cost)

    *) Adjust the numbers with more appropriate.


    If the company cannot break even, the project will be shutdown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazzy View Post
    And no-one asked for your "opinion".
    He "asked" for the truth by revealing his lack of understanding of what he is doing by saying "I don't plan to upgrade"..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    the truth is that it isnīt customers that is killing of lightwave, the foremost responsible for it...that is the management and development within Newtek and Vizrt, not the customers lack of faith initially, itīs may be uncomfortable as a truth, but you are welcome to
    provide another "alternative truth"

    The customers do not think about..."how can we best destroy Lightwave" and thus gather in a mass event to avoid upgrading, they do so because of the lack of faith, roadmaps, and lack of development and releases..lack of hope simply.
    It is self-fulfilling destruction. If company has not enough money from upgrades/sales, has to fire employers, the remaining people will do less work, it will be less attractive for the customers, so the more people won't upgrade, and there will be needed to cut costs again the next year.. Repeat cycle year by year.

  11. #11
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    My dear friend, it is not an opinion. It is mathematics. It is an algorithm.


    If one programmer earns $5000 *) per month. And there is 5 *) programmers in a team. There is 12 months. $5000 * 5 * 12 = $300k per year costs.
    If each upgrade costs $500 *). There is needed $300k / $500 = 600 people who will pay for upgrades each year, to break even.
    Where is the income for the company? The more upgrades/sales needed.
    Where is the marketing cost? The more upgrades/sales needed.
    (and so on, so on, with the other cost)

    *) Adjust the numbers with more appropriate.


    If the company cannot break even, the project will be shutdown.




    He "asked" for the truth by revealing his lack of understanding of what he is doing by saying "I don't plan to upgrade"..
    you need to put trust, transparency, love for the software, customer care in to the mathematics..if possible.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Telling the truth, even the most unpleasant one, isn't cool? The truth is always unpleasant to hear ...
    It's not the truth, nor even remotely a reflection of how product microeconomies actually work.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    It is self-fulfilling destruction. If company has not enough money from upgrades/sales, has to fire employers, the remaining people will do less work, it will be less attractive for the customers, so the more people won't upgrade, and there will be needed to cut costs again the next year.. Repeat cycle year by year.
    That's not the "fault" of the ex-customers, nor are they in any way to "blame" for any impact to product or company from their not doing so, contrary to what you suggested. It is 100% unequivocally the responsibility and accountability of the company responsible for producing the product, and their (accurate or inaccurate) interpretation of the market needs.

    The notion that customers are somehow "obligated and responsible" just by a product purchase to continue giving that company money for upgrades, etc. lacks any moral, ethical or legal basis. Purchase of a product in no way attaches any such obligation to customers.
    Last edited by jwiede; 12-02-2020 at 11:34 AM.
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  13. #13
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    It is self-fulfilling destruction. If company has not enough money from upgrades/sales, has to fire employers, the remaining people will do less work, it will be less attractive for the customers, so the more people won't upgrade, and there will be needed to cut costs again the next year.. Repeat cycle year by year.
    Excuse me..there is one thing you can exclude from that mathematics, without any cost.
    Transparency, you can gain trust..and attract former as well as potentional new users by simply stating properly, yes ..we are continueing to develop lightwave, that is the most stubborn policy they have that destroys a lot ..they do not talk about developement, not even that they will develop it..not even that.

    I think you are way to mathematical in your reasoning here, where maths of costs isnīt appliable in all frameworks for this entity to be alive, then again..I am aware of how mathematical you approach pretty much everything from descriptions etc, coder as you are, are you sure your last name isnīt "Data" ? no offense.

    I am convinced that if Vizrt would change their mind about their policy of not discussing development, and provided they have an intent to continue Lightwave development, we would see an immediate increase of interest and trust and people who may upgrade.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    That's not the "fault" of the ex-customers, nor are they in any way to "blame" for that outcome, contrary to what you suggested.
    Some people are "customers", some are "ex-customers", and some are LightWavers...


    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    It is 100% unequivocally the responsibility and accountability of the company responsible for producing the product, and their (accurate or inaccurate) interpretation of the market needs.
    Loud people told them to unify app, make history/modifer stacks. So they started making "Core". And probably wasted millions of dollars, and several years of work, writing code which ended up in trash.
    People saw "Core" and started complaining "it is not LightWave?!", "I won't use it!", "if I wanted to have such app, I would just buy XYZ/ABC"...

    People/customers/LightWavers sent two incompatible messages to the management and developers.

    Paraphrasing
    "You can't have your cake and eat it"

    "How to have LightWave with modern features, which still is LightWave (so LightWavers, people who used LW for dozen years, will be satisfied), and at the same time introduce everything what every modern app has (e.g. GPU renderer, history and modifer stack, modeling and layout in the same app)"..

  15. #15
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Some people are "customers", some are "ex-customers", and some are LightWavers...




    Loud people told them to unify app, make history/modifer stacks. So they started making "Core". And probably wasted millions of dollars, and several years of work, writing code which ended up in trash.
    People saw "Core" and started complaining "it is not LightWave?!", "I won't use it!", "if I wanted to have such app, I would just buy XYZ/ABC"...

    People/customers/LightWavers sent two incompatible messages to the management and developers.

    Paraphrasing
    "You can't have your cake and eat it"

    "How to have LightWave with modern features, which still is LightWave (so LightWavers, people who used LW for dozen years, will be satisfied), and at the same time introduce everything what every modern app has (e.g. GPU renderer, history and modifer stack, modeling and layout in the same app)"..
    You know, core, they could have worked that out differently, and aimed differently, they made a complete change, discarding all the polishing lightwave went through the years in the film industry, makin it look and feel as a crappy modo version, I dare to state they could have brought in the functionality with a closer feel and look to the regular lightwave ..we still have today.

    They could have improved the color and strengthen the lether of the new ball, without making it totally oval, they failed to communicate with customers in terms of maintaining what was good with lightwave, and just put up a clock no one had any idea on what it should reveal, then present a completely new program...in hindsight, that is not how they should have done it, and later..to afraid of discussing the development due to that failure, which ment no further trust or input from customers could be taken care of properly.

    They really didnīt listen to customers how they wanted lightwave to be, I think most of the customers wanted lightwave feel, but improved functionality and flexibility, not a completely new software that isnīt lightwave, there are users out there that could have switch to blender in a millisecond, if it werenīt for the feel of it, same with modo.

    Lightwaveīs structure and feel and principles of easy acess and easy setup for things, was itīs strength..that has been crippled a bit in later versions as well, itīs been something the developers under core didnīt recognize.

    for having the cake and eating it..yes you can, as long as you donīt take a dump afterwards, you still have the cake.

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