Price of Lightwave ? I'm looking to upgrade But ...

[Old_LWer]

HI I was an old Lightwaver all the way up to LW 10 (with the license attached to a dongle I have lost somewhere in the sands of time)

but the other day I missed the cool mesh clean up tools lightwave had on a job and I always enjoy modelering in LW and wanted to give it a spin again & also thinking hey I got a threadripper and LW has a very nice CPU render too so I checked back on my account etc thinking of upgrading but the price gave be a slap.


Ok the current 3D software market 2020 is pretty cheap we live in a world that has Blender but even 3D Coat, Zbrush Core, Houdini indie, Silo, modo etc (not a autodesk fan so lets leave them out of it)

so how can Newtek be asking for such big $$$ when it's not being updated or actively developed like the others?

Hey I would be happy to upgrade for $100 maybe $200 just to say thanks for the good times my old friend and know I got the latest without a dongle,.
but asking for more than a 3D coat license AND a 12 month houdini indie license? is a hard sale..

with the current state of LW,. maybe upgrades should be cheaper to help bring old users back and get users working again on the latest version to get some activity here ?

hey anyone wants to sell LW 2020 for cheap, PM me I'll pay more than $200

[Sensei]

According to:
https://www.lightwave3d.com/support/...lpt-license-49
"Effective August 1, 2014, a transfer fee of $100 per license will be required to transfer the original registration and ownership of any version of LightWave 3D or ChronoSculpt software to a new owner. The NevronMotion plugin, however, is tied directly to the LightWave 3D license and cannot be transferred separately."

[raymondtrace]

HI I was an old Lightwaver all the way up to LW 10 (with the license attached to a dongle I have lost somewhere in the sands of time)

...

so how can Newtek be asking for such big $$$ when it's not being updated or actively developed like the others?

Those three dots are not an ellipse. They are dots for you to connect.

Expecting a $100 upgrade price for any software after 10 years seems a bit odd. There's merit in being critical of an upgrade pricing policy but lets not discredit ourselves with absurdly low pricing.

You appear aware of cheaper options but still find value in LW. Maybe they have a right to put a price on that value (and to pay the developers that have worked on this for the past 10 years without your support).

[roboman]

Funny, I use to have some antique muscle cars. I would stop at a gas station and some one getting gas would offer me close to what a junk yard would pay for a car that old. They would argue why it was only worth that, while there are still others who would pay as much for it as a new car. Pricing is always a funny thing, as is perceived value.

Is lightwave still worth several thousand dollars? There are still several good arguments about how much you can make with it and that you own the license and aren't renting it. Lots of arguments about development costs. Then you get into the world of free software and where the costs for that come from or the costs of renting something compared to buying. I always liked the arguments that it was just data and nothing 'real', so not being a real object it had no real value. On one side something is worth what ever the owner is willing to sell it for. On the other hand it's only worth what the buyer is willing to pay. The fact that the seller can sell nearly unlimited copies for very little cost makes it a stranger argument, as to it's value. Gets back to paying for developers. People then make that stranger when pointing out that it's a past cost and not a current one. That gets strange, because a car you paid for 5 years ago still has value, but on the other hand you can't just maker free copies of it......

What is a software, no longer in development, worth. Is it really no longer in development? A few years ago I knew a company that had a bunch of drawings in an old cad program. The old computer that had that software on it died and the backups were not to be found. The company that wrote the software had been gone for more then 20 years. Some other company had bought the software and was selling the 20+ year old software still. What was it worth to get access to that 20+ year old data? Is the old almost 3d, wire frame cad software still of any other use? ($795 VersaCAD)

Newtek owns Lightwave. They get to set the upgrade price. Is it worth that much to you? Or as you questioned, is someone willing to sell you their 'used' copy for your price? Value is a hard question for a product that is just data, that is nearly free to copy, but had large costs to develop...... Another question, what is my box of old dongles worth ! My new computers don't even have a printer port ! Hell, what are my old 8 inch floppy drives worth....

[Markc]

Plus let’s not forget, there is actually nothing official about stopping LW development.
Every thread in the forums is purely speculation, if not totally accurate.

[Shabazzy]

so how can Newtek be asking for such big $$$ when it's not being updated or actively developed like the others?

I guess the answer to that depends on how much value you'll get from it.

If I get five similarly specced LightWave capable jobs in, and I'm charging my clients $500 each, then personally I think the $595 upgrade is worth the price.

Over the long term? Well, I guess it doesn't really matter because I made $2500 with it and after the initial investment, was up by $1905. So what does it matter if it's being actively developed or not? I made my money back and then some. Mission accomplished.

Oh, what's that?

I can still use the software again and again and again to make money with?

Well, Mr Ambassador. With this LightWave 3D, you're really spoiling us.

[Old_LWer]

I guess the answer to that depends on how much value you'll get from it.

That's NOT really the issue since 3D software is tax deducable when your making a living doing 3D. it's more a case of will this help me do my project quicker or easier then my current toolset.

If I get five similarly specced LightWave capable jobs in, and I'm charging my clients $500 each, then personally I think the $595 upgrade is worth the price.

Over the long term? Well, I guess it doesn't really matter because I made $2500 with it and after the initial investment, was up by $1905. So what does it matter if it's being actively developed or not? I made my money back and then some. Mission accomplished.

it you want to talk business, let's turn your Business logic around,

Software developerment is a business, the features or time spend by developers is related to Profit or if investment is needed it needs have potential profit.
how are Lightwave paying their developers for the next update with only 4-5 active users ?

I see no point in getting negative towards Lightwave or Newtek,. Let just call it "The Elephant in the room" alot of posts of over MANY years now have covered everything you could say about "The Elephant in the room"

My point was to move forward. It would help if you had more current LW 2020 users = more money and/or more potential money from the next update.
but it seems as you guys have voted me off the island and prefer to keep things as that are today.

OK sorry to interrupt your lightwave love.

[raymondtrace]

It isn't that you or your idea are dismissed. It's that it is not a new idea and it is not an idea that really matters for discussion here among users. NewTek/Vizrt is a business that makes business decisions based on real data. Surely you understand the futility of polling existing users about sales growth schemes.

[roboman]

Hummmm, don't know what tax deductible means in oz. In the USA it means you get to keep a part of the cost, based on your income. You don't get it all back. So the cost does matter here.


Sorry to offend. I don't know what the proper price should be for lightwave. I think I paid $295. Would they have sold 3x as many at $100. I guess the upgrade is around $600. Would they sell 6x as many at $100? Would the Maya people try it if it was free? Hell, would the blender people try it if it was free? All kind of interesting questions. Is it more like a bar, not quite so much about the price as much as having a bad night or two, then finding a new place and not going back? Is it that all the big guys use Maya and all the cad people use Max? Is it just the fact that most old timers think Lightwave went out of business a couple decades ago and the new people never heard of them?

Should Lightwave upgrades be $100? I don't know. I was willing to pay $295. Might wave been willing to pay the $600. The core mess and the ever changing promised discounts to make up for that.... might have kept me from paying that much. Probably would have stopped me. So I guess I'm saying that I figure the upgrade was probably worth $600 to me, but I wouldn't have paid more then the last promised price.

So should Lightwave upgrade be $100. I honestly don't know. The pricing is the gamble and choice that needs to be made by Newtek. What is it worth to people? Well clearly you ask a group of people who paid more then $100, since the price is higher then that and this is a users forum. I don't think offense was intended, but you ask a bunch of people who had already paid more then $100 if they thought the price should be more then $100.

Would a $100 price help? don't know, probably not as much as letting people know they hadn't gone out of business 20 years ago and that the software was reasonably good. Lots of questions with only guesses as answers.

[Tim Parsons]

Yeah - $295 for all probably would have been a magic number. When 2020 was released there was a lot of - "$495 for this!!" - comments. Which lets face it was steep for what was in it. (If going from LW2019 to 2020) Anyone with LW2015 or earlier I would think the $495 would be a good value. People seem to think that the 2018 and up upgrades were render only upgrades and while rendering was a big part of the upgrades, there is a lot more to them than that. Our company just upgraded and we were on the $295 special and after working with it for several days, I think it was worth the $295.

[erikals]

it was inevitable that LightWave would have to go another route since another certain App (ahem!) did lots of the stuff better, and for free.

LightWave had to become more specialized, but didn't manage to punch hard enough. Thus the result.

[Tim Parsons]

since another certain App (ahem!) did lots of the stuff better, and for free.

I am liking Blender. But I also have more of an appreciation for LW after using Blender now for a bit.

[erikals]

Yes, i like both,

Blender is a bit more like the navigation of a 747, powerful and... well...

[Shabazzy]

it you want to talk business, let's turn your Business logic around,

Software developerment is a business, the features or time spend by developers is related to Profit or if investment is needed it needs have potential profit.
how are Lightwave paying their developers for the next update with only 4-5 active users ?

I see no point in getting negative towards Lightwave or Newtek,. Let just call it "The Elephant in the room" alot of posts of over MANY years now have covered everything you could say about "The Elephant in the room"

My point was to move forward. It would help if you had more current LW 2020 users = more money and/or more potential money from the next update.

Well if that was your point, you hid it well. Nowhere in your OP did you allude that you were asking the question from the perspective of how NewTek should run their business. The perspective you presented was one from a user.

You stated that you used to use LW. You used to like it. You left it. You decided to see if it was worth coming back. You saw the price and thought it was too steep. Then asked how can they justify charging as much as they do. All seen from the perspective of a user.

So forgive me if I read what you wrote and thought what you were asking us was; 'As users of the product, do we think NT are charging a fair price to upgrade?'.

I didn't realise you were actually asking; 'As individuals who have no position within NT, are not employees, not owners, not shareholders and not investors and have no insight into their decision making processes. How is it that NT can justify charging the money they charge for a product they own, when the competition offers something that seems more compelling to me?'

If you had phrased your OP like this, I guess I would have given a more appropriate answer.

We British have a tendency to interpret questions on a more literal level. My bad.

[Old_LWer]

Well if that was your point, you hid it well. Nowhere in your OP did you allude that you were asking the question from the perspective of how NewTek should run their business. The perspective you presented was one from a user.

You stated that you used to use LW. You used to like it. You left it. You decided to see if it was worth coming back. You saw the price and thought it was too steep. Then asked how can they justify charging as much as they do. All seen from the perspective of a user.

So forgive me if I read what you wrote and thought what you were asking us was; 'As users of the product, do we think NT are charging a fair price to upgrade?'.

I didn't realise you were actually asking; 'As individuals who have no position within NT, are not employees, not owners, not shareholders and not investors and have no insight into their decision making processes. How is it that NT can justify charging the money they charge for a product they own, when the competition offers something that seems more compelling to me?'

If you had phrased your OP like this, I guess I would have given a more appropriate answer.

We British have a tendency to interpret questions on a more literal level. My bad.