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Thread: What is Lightwave missing in order to get back on track(TV series, commercials, etc)?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Art schools, universities need to teach their students 3D applications. When they finish school, they will buy it and demand it from future employers.

    So, company making 3D application must think primarily how to persuade art schools and universities to use their app..
    With respect, I don't think this will work for LW. I believe schools want to teach students software most likely to get them jobs, and to that end they will teach the prevalent software, i.e. Maya. AutoDesk has already dropped the cost barrier for students with subscription models for people to learn their products. And, while I can't prove this, I believe that schools that still can't afford Maya are going to teach something free for the schools and student which would be Blender.

    I don't have any statistics to support my point of view. I just know that schools teach PhotoShop, not Gimp or Affinity. Schools teach Illustrator, not InkScape. Schools teach ProTools for audio editing, not Garage Band, or Audacity, etc...

    And I will also say, I shared your opinion 20 years ago when I started with LW and there were no subscription models for software. My student copy of LW was $800 ( if I remember correctly) and it was another $500 to upgrade to the full version the first paying gig I got. (It was also the last freelance paying gig I ever took.) Back then a seat of Maya (or previously Alias Wavefront) was like $5000.

  2. #17
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    I would say "Great Artists and User base", because lightwave has been very capable for years in the right hands, to put it into perspective, just go back and watch Hellboy, it still compares to todays offerings, some of the effects are so seamless you don't even know they are there! https://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/...en-fx-hellboy/ and that was with LW 7.5 - 8.0
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter2999 View Post
    With respect, I don't think this will work for LW. I believe schools want to teach students software most likely to get them jobs, and to that end they will teach the prevalent software, i.e. Maya...
    Exactly!

    A school that teaches LW nowadays would be dubious and irresponsible towards its students.

  4. #19

    What is LightWave missing in order to get back on track ?
    ...calling back the engineering team ?

    [ducks]
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    ...calling back the developers?

    [ducks]
    I think the issue was that they didn't have enough developers for the last decade or so. So, it would take calling them back and building a larger team. A larger pipeline doesn't guarantee more water, but a too small pipeline does place a hard limit on throughput. A balance needs to be struck, and they have yet to try seriously investing in LW.

    As generalist 3D artists, we tend to think in terms of the 300 at Thermopylae, do a lot with a little, what miracle can we "pull off". LW dev seems to have had a similar approach, "What can we get away with, as a small team with a tiny budget?" Like the 300, they did an outstanding job for a long time, but even the 300 were holding until the larger reinforcements could arrive. There is a hard limit, to what a finite number can achieve in an amount of time. If the larger force never arrives, the war would be lost in due course. In this case, the larger force is the follow up investment of resources, developers, money and marketing to grow the product, and bring in more money. I've seen the opposite of an indication, that the LW owners are willing to make that commitment, so I hope they sell it to someone who wants to. We can hope.

  6. #21
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Exactly!

    A school that teaches LW nowadays would be dubious and irresponsible towards its students.
    you mean like one of UKs most central colleges that also runs the "create Expo"? that has courses and a tube channel that is only lightwave? https://www.youtube.com/user/tonyhall007/videos
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  7. #22

    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    you mean like one of UKs most central colleges that also runs the "create Expo"? that has courses and a tube channel that is only lightwave? https://www.youtube.com/user/tonyhall007/videos
    ever since "the news" i think that's about to change, unfortunately.
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  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    modo is not the successor to LW. modo is primarily a modelling app -- i don't know any studios that have a modo-primary pipeline for feature or broadcast animation. LW's animation, dynamics and rendering features are far more intricate and robust. just because some of the original LW developers left newtek to start up modo doesn't make it LW's successor.
    Even though Modo is not Lightwaves official successor many see it as Lightwaves unofficial successor. It was rewritten and designed based on the lessons learned from the original design and development of Lightwave up to and including LW 7.
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  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    modo is not the successor to LW. modo is primarily a modelling app -- i don't know any studios that have a modo-primary pipeline for feature or broadcast animation. LW's animation, dynamics and rendering features are far more intricate and robust. just because some of the original LW developers left newtek to start up modo doesn't make it LW's successor.
    Modo was LW. It only became Modo after the disagreement between the developers and NT. Had they not had a “divorce” the Lightwave badge would be at the top of the modo interface and what we now know as Modo would be LW.
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  10. #25
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    modo is not the successor to LW. modo is primarily a modelling app -- i don't know any studios that have a modo-primary pipeline for feature or broadcast animation. LW's animation, dynamics and rendering features are far more intricate and robust. just because some of the original LW developers left newtek to start up modo doesn't make it LW's successor.
    ROFL! Spoken like someone who hasn't touched Modo since 601 (or earlier).

    But please, feel free to enumerate all the features and aspects of LW's animation, dynamics, and rendering that Modo lacks. It'll be interesting to hear.
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  11. #26
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Art schools, universities need to teach their students 3D applications. When they finish school, they will buy it and demand it from future employers.

    So, company making 3D application must think primarily how to persuade art schools and universities to use their app..
    My "advanced" guess is that it sounds backwards.
    When did art school set the rules for which software should be used primarely or as industry standard in the first place?
    If a software is so good, so much generally used in movies for instance, that will set the rule for the shools on which software they would Really need to learn, from a school of reputation using the " industry standard tools"

    So no..canīt say I what you said seem to have been the route that has been the truth out there, wether or not you rsuggestion is something that would be left to desire, that will be a battle between desire for a software ,VS what is actually setting the standard.

    So basicly, the software needs to have a certain level of standard, and probably need to have something very special that the others donīt have, for it to hit a a mark of industry standard.

  12. #27

    aspects of LW's animation, dynamics, and rendering that Modo lacks.
    it got much better over the years, still i don't think Modo reached the height that many of us would have liked for it to.

    same can be said about C4D + AutoDesk Apps.

    Houdini seems to be the one rolling today, but even that is kinda slow with its node-structures.

    Blender is alright, but still have some "gotchas" to fix.

    so, who's the winner for a 1 man band doing Modeling / CA / VFX / Rendering... ?



    not sure.
    Last edited by erikals; 10-16-2020 at 10:16 PM.
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  13. #28
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    it got much better over the years, still i don't think Modo reached the height that many of us would have liked for it to.
    That's a strawman argument, it has nothing to do with his claim. He needs to provide evidence to support his claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    so, who's the winner for a 1 man band doing Modeling / CA / VFX / Rendering... ?
    I'd guess C4D based on generally-superior ease of use and stability across the mentioned feature areas while still offering broad and deep functionality as well (esp. as C4D supports very broad rendering options), otherwise Maya. Only reason I don't say Maya first, is Maya's ease-of-use lacks a bit as a "one-man-shop" end-to-end toolset -- Maya certainly can do it, but it'd take quite a bit of MEL help to yield equivalent ease of use as C4D in terms of end-to-end tasks (impacting efficiency as a one-man solution).

    C4D getting to where it is in 3D market share/ranking basically proves it is "very popular" in many (likely, most) 3D market segments, and obviously even more so true for Maya.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    you mean like one of UKs most central colleges that also runs the "create Expo"? that has courses and a tube channel that is only lightwave? https://www.youtube.com/user/tonyhall007/videos
    Well hardly relevant with about 1k subscribers but yes, one example of a 'school' that is not acting responsible, teaching students outdated / irrelevant stuff. The latest tutorial (Bevel/Chamfer/Rounder) on the channel proves that, wasting one's time teaching 3 crappy tools what can done much better and easier with one proper tool in all other apps.

  15. #30
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MauricioPC View Post
    You may not like it, but I would put Max on top of Maya. Easier to learn and to fly solo than Maya, almost as capable in animation.



    Not saying he is right, but show me a VFX shot done in Modo. There isn't one, only modelling and archviz/product viz.
    With all respect, you must have full insight on every studio working in order to know that there isnīt one, otherwise itīs purely what you can see and know that is the basis of that statement.
    You can probably be right in terms of very little is seen though, but you really donīt know.

    None as..very little is not the same as absolute none.

    And that said, it doesnīt exclude any facts either..that it in fact isnīt any vfx shots done in modo..if that is truly the case, and further on we would have to argue to what level a shot is done to held up as vfx shot.

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