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Thread: Screw the Doom & Gloom - LW Still Rulez In My Arsenal, and Will for Years to Come

  1. #76

    we can fix it in post.
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  2. #77
    LightWave Fan Boi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    It doesn't bother you that most developers including staff for documentation and support are let go or that developers like Oliver don't want to have anything to do with LW anymore?

    That there are no job positions open at VizRT or NewTek for LW?

    The faulty and thin LW 2020 release?
    Ye Gods! What do my feelings have to do with anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    The slow development pace in the past and giant gap to other 3D apps, lack of essential features?

    That almost no other 3D applications, render engines, bridges or plugins have a LW integration?

    The complete mess of old and redundant tools because no one at LW bothers to clean up or consolidate?

    That long standing issues like Alembic or SubD are still not fixed?

    Abandoned tools like Nevron or Chronosculpt?

    Broken commercial plugins?

    The complete lack of marketing, newsletters or learning material?
    Did you pay NT for any of these things?
    Did NT promise you them? Or promise to fix any perceived issues?
    Are you a shareholder in NT?

    No? Then what gives you the right to be aggrieved on how NT conduct their business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    These are facts.
    This is history. This what The Usual Suspect do. Project their childish tantrums on to NT because they're not adult enough to realise that NT don't owe them a thing outside what they deliver.

    NT run their business the way that best fits their purposes. We as users are not privvy to their decision making processes and are absolutely powerless to enforce our demands.

    What we can do, is act like adults and see whether the company suits our needs or not. And if not, make the grown up decision to find and move to a company that does.

    There are those who do, and then there are The Clueless Moaning Minnies.

    That my friend, are the real facts of the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Well, NewTek decision makers, I rather not go into that.
    Thank you for sparing us. There's hope for you yet.

  3. #78
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    OK, enough with the personal tweaks ... I don't have a lot of time to wade through all of this, so to save time if it continues there just might be some unexplained disappearances.
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  4. #79
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    Careful with posting clouds, I don't think Prometheus will approve these!

    Sorry Prom, couldn't resist
    I actually do, thereīs even a cute sunny (Kat) in there..very creative

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    How can you find Modeler absolutely superior when you're never using anything else? Superior compared to what???

    Well everyone should use what he likes but I wouldn't use the word superior in conjunction with Modeler.
    ...well it kinda goes without saying that I've TRIED the other modelers available, doesn't it?. Any NORMAL person would not have made that statement otherwise.
    - Ignorance is bliss...

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  6. #81
    Big Kahuna TreyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBeckwith View Post
    I haven't been on these forums that long, but is it me or are there a lot of "blender" people here down talking Lightwave? Have we had any official confirmation or statements stating that Lightwave is officially dead? I haven't seen any.
    you are abso correct. i was waiting to see how long it would take until the perpetual blender trolls hijacked my post and began using it as a blender promotion, and sure enough, here we are again...and again...and again. this has been going on for several years, and the same offenders are still at it. i try to start a discussion on a positive note and get people excited about LW, but to no avail once the trolls take over. no point in even trying anymore on this forum. fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
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  7. #82
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Except it was the Daz discussion that actually hijacked your thread (not Blender as you claim), occurring before and after the (brief) Blender discussion, and representing more posts in thread overall.

    I think a LOT of us plan to keep using LW at some level, but it's hardly unexpected that users will start to discuss how to address issues and feature lacks -- it's fairly obvious further fixes from NT/V are less than likely (and odds fall further by the day).

    Personally, I strongly recommend that if LW users have been "eyeing" commercial third-party plugins, now's the time to buy them, because there's just no telling how much longer many will remain commercially available (as we're already seeing). Current LW events just made delaying third-party plugin purchases a LOT riskier, and further, any boost in sales/donations is likely to help keep third-party devs supporting LW longer overall.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-31-2020 at 04:36 PM.
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  8. #83
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    It's a crying shame that the LW we're ostensibly "left with" is kind of a stability "dud". It contained a few SDK enhancements that would be fairly valuable going forward (esp. if NT/V don't contribute further development), but LW2020 itself has too many issues.

    If there's no hope of NT/V selling LW, then at the least, it might be worth finding out if they'd even consider accepting crowdfunded payment to evaluate, and if feasible, produce one last "retrofit update" to backport some critical improvements from LW2020 back to LW2019 (f.e. attributes, FBX importer, tonemapping, and a very few other key, largely self-contained "infrastructure"-level changes/APIs). That would at least leave LW2019 in better shape for serving as a durable "legacy/retro-platform" going forward.

    Oh well, just a thought.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-31-2020 at 04:56 PM.
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  9. #84
    LightWave Fan Boi
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    you are abso correct. i was waiting to see how long it would take until the perpetual blender trolls hijacked my post and began using it as a blender promotion, and sure enough, here we are again...and again...and again. this has been going on for several years, and the same offenders are still at it. i try to start a discussion on a positive note and get people excited about LW, but to no avail once the trolls take over. no point in even trying anymore on this forum. fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
    Well I for one, applaud your attempt to be the voice of positivity. I very much appreciated what you were trying to do and am glad you stood up and created a thread to make it known that not everyone feels the same way as "the most vocal" on these forums.

    Believe me when I say that your efforts were not in vain.

    We, the silent majority salute you.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    you are abso correct. i was waiting to see how long it would take until the perpetual blender trolls hijacked my post and began using it as a blender promotion, and sure enough, here we are again...and again...and again. this has been going on for several years, and the same offenders are still at it. i try to start a discussion on a positive note and get people excited about LW, but to no avail once the trolls take over. no point in even trying anymore on this forum. fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
    Again, put a couple of them on ignore and things brighten up considerably.
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  11. #86
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    you are abso correct. i was waiting to see how long it would take until the perpetual blender trolls hijacked my post and began using it as a blender promotion, and sure enough, here we are again...and again...and again. this has been going on for several years, and the same offenders are still at it. i try to start a discussion on a positive note and get people excited about LW, but to no avail once the trolls take over. no point in even trying anymore on this forum. fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
    Most of the you guys complaining of the blender promotion as soon as blender is mentioned, I would dare to state you are not reflecting soberly on such notion.
    There isnīt Any blender promotion in this thread, not that I can see of.

    Itīs inevitable to mention other 3D software when Lightwave isnīt up to the job, or if someone mentions how it works for them or not, wether or not how much of it should be in a dedicated thread as the third party section, or
    if there should be any tolerance in other discussions as well( as long as it isnīt direct promo) that can be debated.

    Ultimately it leads to users having a hard time mentioning blender at all, and may go saying be, because they can not discuss freely issues, while their intentions are not to promote blender, just pointing out issues.

    And reflection on where a certain software handles something better or different, is to my knowledge not a direct promotion.

    And below, I could make another image with the Lightwave logo on a tombstone and a graveyard and some dark clouds, could be fitting in terms of the doomsday future perspective we currently get, and with halloween in mind as well.
    But for now, a fantasy promo, though I couldnīt render the fetus with Lightwave due to the bad subsurface in the principled shader ( will have to look at the other materials) so I missed to render out my lensflares as well as planned, and in the other software I donīt have any lensflare so I will have to check up that as payed addons.

    Nothings perfect...

    Dp shape fractals for the gradient pattern, dp pipes for the line patterns, render out as textured environment, downloaded a fetus from sketchfab, tried to render in Lightwave but too slow and to much noise, ergo rendering out the fetus elsewhere with no noise and better subsurface.
    I wish I could have managed that in Lighwave and the lights in there and lensflares..but not now, perhaps when I have researched the subsurface materials in pbr and the others sigma etc.

    Again...Image is fake fantasy promo, not the real deal, you wish.
    Lightwave Logo on a tombstone, not sure I got the time, or if it is fitting could be fun if not taken seriously, could be offending..If taken seriously.



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  12. #87

    Lightwave Logo on a tombstone, not sure I got the time, or if it is fitting could be fun if not taken seriously, could be offending..If taken seriously.
    well, i'd wager not, as we already tried the Norwegian blue without success.
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  13. #88
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    well, i'd wager not, as we already tried the Norwegian blue without success.
    I think it would be fun, mocking bird and all that, poking at newtek and vizrt to do their best to prove the "Bad" images are not the case ..and that the "Good" images are indeed the case.
    And it may allow for people to do more artwork, preferably with Lightwave..and if not, pointing out the flaws of Why not, for Vizrt to recognize as well.

    And I actually thought Sbowie took the norwegian blue well, guess there is some acceptance for british humour within him.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by TreyX View Post
    i was waiting to see how long it would take until the perpetual blender trolls hijacked my post and began using it as a blender promotion, and sure enough, here we are again...and again...and again. this has been going on for several years, and the same offenders are still at it. i try to start a discussion on a positive note and get people excited about LW, but to no avail once the trolls take over.
    Well I'm sure everyone here over the years have downloaded and played with Blender and have found that it totally sucked - until recently. Blender Foundation did what they had to do to attract more users in the very recent releases and now it is a very usable piece of code. Had NT done the same we wouldn't be where we are now. I've stated that I will continue to use LW for as long as it continues to function and the discovery of Blender in its new improved UI is just a bonus. I wouldn't have given it a second thought again if it wasn't for the recent circumstances LW finds itself in. I also have a much more appreciation for LW after spending time in Blender but will include Blender more in my work for those tricky modeling and cloth simulation situations that I've struggled with in LW. While Evee and Cycles are impressive, I don't see myself doing any rendering in Blender - ever. Render times in LW don't bother me as all I generally do is stills. The LW render engine gives fantastic results, so screw the doom and gloom - LW still rules!!. :
    Tim Parsons

  15. #90
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    While Evee and Cycles are impressive, I don't see myself doing any rendering in Blender - ever. Render times in LW don't bother me as all I generally do is stills. The LW render engine gives fantastic results, so screw the doom and gloom - LW still rules!!. :
    Try subsurfacing, as I mentioned..
    Subsurface the renderer I used is ..
    Faster to render
    Less noise, tried increase subsurface samples A lot, and refracion A lot and a lot of camera samples, not solving it
    better subsurface realism

    This was comparing the two principled materials in both renders.

    maybe I just didnīt approach it with the right subsurface materials, principle shading subsurface is just too horrible in noise reduction, and leakin hotspots..I dindīt have to worry with that....I didnīt even have to use noise filtering in the other renderer.
    then again..I need to get a lensflare addon for that renderer, lightwaveīs lensflares are old as hell..could be improved, but at the same time they are quite nice and handy..so I could have polished the image to be a bit more stunning I think with that.

    And of course...I sorely lack all the procedurals we have in Lightwave, for the other software..all I get is links to nodal mess constructed fractals, with 50 or hundreds of nodes combined to get a result I want to manage within one or two fractal textures only.

    The dp fractals are so nice, though sometimes crashy.

    Hair however..canīt use Lightwave, one of the things they need to rethink, or implement GPU to solve and better aliasing...but who knows what will happen, only vizrt and probably some former developers.

    Interiors? unless a fetus has crawled up on a table, you donīt have to worry Tim or marge simpson jumping in on the couch to display all the blue hair.

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