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Thread: Screw the Doom & Gloom - LW Still Rulez In My Arsenal, and Will for Years to Come

  1. #16
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    Also, I would urge anyone serious and making money using LW to visit db&w patreon and support them when they develop a new node/tool every month. They are very open for suggestions of tools/nodes as well.

    https://www.patreon.com/dbw/posts
    Agreed! If you're still planning to use LW going forward, you should definitely join DB&W Patreon, it offers excellent value for cost!
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  2. #17
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    Great idea! I joined the Patreon! LW forever!

  3. #18
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    Totally agree. My theory is that LW can't be killed even if you wanted to. For me, the interface is very easy to use once you know a few things, and you can just start creating so many cool things so fast. And I know some people don't like the split between modeler and lay out, but I see modeler as the workshop, and lay out as the front yard. It all just makes sense to me. Also agree with supporting DPont, DBW and all the others as much as I can. That's another reason I love LW.

  4. #19
    Big Kahuna TreyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    Totally agree. My theory is that LW can't be killed even if you wanted to. For me, the interface is very easy to use once you know a few things, and you can just start creating so many cool things so fast. And I know some people don't like the split between modeler and lay out, but I see modeler as the workshop, and lay out as the front yard. It all just makes sense to me. Also agree with supporting DPont, DBW and all the others as much as I can. That's another reason I love LW.
    right on.
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  5. #20
    ex-LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    Modeler was always referred to, literally, as the workshop while Layout was the soundstage, since the earliest days.

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  6. #21
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    Modeller is the Workshop and Layout is the Studio
    (I head that from Rob Powers some years ago actually)

  7. #22
    Registered User dlvphoto's Avatar
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    When my creative journey took me back into a world that required significant 3D work in 2015 to accomplish that photography and 2D digital art couldn't accomplish (after a seven year fork into that 2D world), I looked at all of the major and some of the minor packages out there. I originally started with Lightwave with way back with version 1.0 and it was still my primary (only for the most part) 3D package up until 2005 or so when my need for 3D dropped off to the point I could just as easily fake it in Photoshop. I picked LW back up in 2015 instead of Maya, C4D or even Houdini because of the way Layout works. It's the closest thing I've seen in any package to how I think as a photographer, both in how the camera operates and how the scene is manipulated, displayed and laid out on screen. It's "stage" is basically your production set and represents the real world in terms of how it presents the abstract internal 3D world to you.

    Nothing else I've encountered has come close to that. Houdini (my 2nd favorite currently; I loves me some nodes, yo!) is close but nothing, out of the box, and ***by design*** gives me that feeling of sitting in a virtual studio staring through a real camera at my scene. I *think* that way when setting things up. Everything else feels way too much like a CAD or engineering or construction program of some kind and that's abstraction paradigm just doesn't work.

    For creatives working, by and large, on images and productions that have to fit into the "real world" of live video or just rendering images to give a viewer a sense of a real world story, this is beyond gold in value.

    Say what you will about the power behind the tools in some of the other packages, the seamless, simplicity of setting my camera to the settings I would if I was photographing a given scene and just start laying out my objects and elements and lights without hassling with viewport configurations or whatever the h**l Blender users have to do in order to even manipulate their camera properly, Layout lets me just get to work the moment it's GUI is up and my objects are loaded.

    This will keep me coming back to Lightwave as my primary layout engine for years to come. Until I can either get Houdini to mimic this by default, or something else adopts this simplicity, I will at wort be using FBX back and forth to other packges for this kind of layout flexibility. For now, Lightwave 2020 is still my primary layout and rendering (with octane for most things, but some scenes just won't fit in my GPU.. anyone want to donate a couple of RTX 3090's to a starving artist? 40GB with nvlink should be almost enough for a scene I 'm working on right now. <G>).

    Modeler is a weak spot for me, but then, modeling has been my kryptonite since Modeler3D was my modeler on my Amiga 500 ( then Imagine on my A3000) way way way back in the day so I don't join in on any of the critiques (gods, that's such a nice word for the posts about modeler) about Modeler that I see floating around.

    I am saddened by what I see going on in the Lightwave community, and in some ways I'd almost want a return to the wastelands I wandered through between late 2015 and the release of 2018 when everyone woke up from their hybernation and the community came alive again. Toxic is a word, uncreative and wasteful of creative energy is probably a better way to put it.

    Am I concerned with what VizRT is going to do with Lightwave going forward? Yes. Do I have opinions on what can be done to make it the star attraction in so, so many things that VizRT is front and center of (hello, virtual real time sets!!), YES! It wouldn't take much in the way of developer time to integrate Quixel, Substance, Gaea and even Houdini right into LW's interface. Just time and dedication to getting it done. Hell, contract a *solid* developer with strong python skills and with knowledge of 3D pipeline development and turn them loose for a few months to get all of that. (well, except houdini.. that'd be a "Major Project" but definitely worthwhile.. hello world class dynamics built right in that Newtek/VizRT doesn't have to develop and maintain...).

    So no real doom and gloom here. I just landed three Sci-fi book cover projects due in less than 2 weeks that I wouldn't even begin to attempt without the Lightwave and the way it works for me. I did this by going live on zoom with the client and roughing out the ideas over dinner this weekend. Being able to do that, in Layout, is something I wouldn't have even attempted in anything else I've used or even seen used. Too many buttons to push, dialogs to fill out, nodes to connect, etc.. to get simple things done to even prep a scene for a quick test render. I just loaded Layout, pulled in assets from my library and started 'sketching' as the client and I discussed what he wanted.

    As long as Lightwave keeps painting all the pretty pixels for me, I'll keep using it.

    Scott
    Last edited by dlvphoto; 10-20-2020 at 04:18 PM.

  8. #23
    ack ack Markc's Avatar
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    Nicely said Scott.......
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  9. #24
    Big Kahuna TreyX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlvphoto View Post
    When my creative journey took me back into a world that required significant 3D work in 2015 to accomplish that photography and 2D digital art couldn't accomplish (after a seven year fork into that 2D world), I looked at all of the major and some of the minor packages out there. I originally started with Lightwave with way back with version 1.0 and it was still my primary (only for the most part) 3D package up until 2005 or so when my need for 3D dropped off to the point I could just as easily fake it in Photoshop. I picked LW back up in 2015 instead of Maya, C4D or even Houdini because of the way Layout works. It's the closest thing I've seen in any package to how I think as a photographer, both in how the camera operates and how the scene is manipulated, displayed and laid out on screen. It's "stage" is basically your production set and represents the real world in terms of how it presents the abstract internal 3D world to you.

    Nothing else I've encountered has come close to that. Houdini (my 2nd favorite currently; I loves me some nodes, yo!) is close but nothing, out of the box, and ***by design*** gives me that feeling of sitting in a virtual studio staring through a real camera at my scene. I *think* that way when setting things up. Everything else feels way too much like a CAD or engineering or construction program of some kind and that's abstraction paradigm just doesn't work.

    For creatives working, by and large, on images and productions that have to fit into the "real world" of live video or just rendering images to give a viewer a sense of a real world story, this is beyond gold in value.

    Say what you will about the power behind the tools in some of the other packages, the seamless, simplicity of setting my camera to the settings I would if I was photographing a given scene and just start laying out my objects and elements and lights without hassling with viewport configurations or whatever the h**l Blender users have to do in order to even manipulate their camera properly, Layout lets me just get to work the moment it's GUI is up and my objects are loaded.

    This will keep me coming back to Lightwave as my primary layout engine for years to come. Until I can either get Houdini to mimic this by default, or something else adopts this simplicity, I will at wort be using FBX back and forth to other packges for this kind of layout flexibility. For now, Lightwave 2020 is still my primary layout and rendering (with octane for most things, but some scenes just won't fit in my GPU.. anyone want to donate a couple of RTX 3090's to a starving artist? 40GB with nvlink should be almost enough for a scene I 'm working on right now. <G>).

    Modeler is a weak spot for me, but then, modeling has been my kryptonite since Modeler3D was my modeler on my Amiga 500 ( then Imagine on my A3000) way way way back in the day so I don't join in on any of the critiques (gods, that's such a nice word for the posts about modeler) about Modeler that I see floating around.

    I am saddened by what I see going on in the Lightwave community, and in some ways I'd almost want a return to the wastelands I wandered through between late 2015 and the release of 2018 when everyone woke up from their hybernation and the community came alive again. Toxic is a word, uncreative and wasteful of creative energy is probably a better way to put it.

    Am I concerned with what VizRT is going to do with Lightwave going forward? Yes. Do I have opinions on what can be done to make it the star attraction in so, so many things that VizRT is front and center of (hello, virtual real time sets!!), YES! It wouldn't take much in the way of developer time to integrate Quixel, Substance, Gaea and even Houdini right into LW's interface. Just time and dedication to getting it done. Hell, contract a *solid* developer with strong python skills and with knowledge of 3D pipeline development and turn them loose for a few months to get all of that. (well, except houdini.. that'd be a "Major Project" but definitely worthwhile.. hello world class dynamics built right in that Newtek/VizRT doesn't have to develop and maintain...).

    So no real doom and gloom here. I just landed three Sci-fi book cover projects due in less than 2 weeks that I wouldn't even begin to attempt without the Lightwave and the way it works for me. I did this by going live on zoom with the client and roughing out the ideas over dinner this weekend. Being able to do that, in Layout, is something I wouldn't have even attempted in anything else I've used or even seen used. Too many buttons to push, dialogs to fill out, nodes to connect, etc.. to get simple things done to even prep a scene for a quick test render. I just loaded Layout, pulled in assets from my library and started 'sketching' as the client and I discussed what he wanted.

    As long as Lightwave keeps painting all the pretty pixels for me, I'll keep using it.

    Scott
    beautifully put, scott! agree 100%, and was also relieved to hear someone else put into words how I feel about the LW community post 2015. i've been struggling with this as well.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlvphoto View Post
    When my creative journey took me back into a world that required significant 3D work in 2015 to accomplish that photography and 2D digital art couldn't accomplish (after a seven year fork into that 2D world), I looked at all of the major and some of the minor packages out there. I originally started with Lightwave with way back with version 1.0 and it was still my primary (only for the most part) 3D package up until 2005 or so when my need for 3D dropped off to the point I could just as easily fake it in Photoshop. I picked LW back up in 2015 instead of Maya, C4D or even Houdini because of the way Layout works. It's the closest thing I've seen in any package to how I think as a photographer, both in how the camera operates and how the scene is manipulated, displayed and laid out on screen. It's "stage" is basically your production set and represents the real world in terms of how it presents the abstract internal 3D world to you.

    Nothing else I've encountered has come close to that. Houdini (my 2nd favorite currently; I loves me some nodes, yo!) is close but nothing, out of the box, and ***by design*** gives me that feeling of sitting in a virtual studio staring through a real camera at my scene. I *think* that way when setting things up. Everything else feels way too much like a CAD or engineering or construction program of some kind and that's abstraction paradigm just doesn't work.

    For creatives working, by and large, on images and productions that have to fit into the "real world" of live video or just rendering images to give a viewer a sense of a real world story, this is beyond gold in value.

    Say what you will about the power behind the tools in some of the other packages, the seamless, simplicity of setting my camera to the settings I would if I was photographing a given scene and just start laying out my objects and elements and lights without hassling with viewport configurations or whatever the h**l Blender users have to do in order to even manipulate their camera properly, Layout lets me just get to work the moment it's GUI is up and my objects are loaded.

    This will keep me coming back to Lightwave as my primary layout engine for years to come. Until I can either get Houdini to mimic this by default, or something else adopts this simplicity, I will at wort be using FBX back and forth to other packges for this kind of layout flexibility. For now, Lightwave 2020 is still my primary layout and rendering (with octane for most things, but some scenes just won't fit in my GPU.. anyone want to donate a couple of RTX 3090's to a starving artist? 40GB with nvlink should be almost enough for a scene I 'm working on right now. <G>).

    Modeler is a weak spot for me, but then, modeling has been my kryptonite since Modeler3D was my modeler on my Amiga 500 ( then Imagine on my A3000) way way way back in the day so I don't join in on any of the critiques (gods, that's such a nice word for the posts about modeler) about Modeler that I see floating around.

    I am saddened by what I see going on in the Lightwave community, and in some ways I'd almost want a return to the wastelands I wandered through between late 2015 and the release of 2018 when everyone woke up from their hybernation and the community came alive again. Toxic is a word, uncreative and wasteful of creative energy is probably a better way to put it.

    Am I concerned with what VizRT is going to do with Lightwave going forward? Yes. Do I have opinions on what can be done to make it the star attraction in so, so many things that VizRT is front and center of (hello, virtual real time sets!!), YES! It wouldn't take much in the way of developer time to integrate Quixel, Substance, Gaea and even Houdini right into LW's interface. Just time and dedication to getting it done. Hell, contract a *solid* developer with strong python skills and with knowledge of 3D pipeline development and turn them loose for a few months to get all of that. (well, except houdini.. that'd be a "Major Project" but definitely worthwhile.. hello world class dynamics built right in that Newtek/VizRT doesn't have to develop and maintain...).

    So no real doom and gloom here. I just landed three Sci-fi book cover projects due in less than 2 weeks that I wouldn't even begin to attempt without the Lightwave and the way it works for me. I did this by going live on zoom with the client and roughing out the ideas over dinner this weekend. Being able to do that, in Layout, is something I wouldn't have even attempted in anything else I've used or even seen used. Too many buttons to push, dialogs to fill out, nodes to connect, etc.. to get simple things done to even prep a scene for a quick test render. I just loaded Layout, pulled in assets from my library and started 'sketching' as the client and I discussed what he wanted.

    As long as Lightwave keeps painting all the pretty pixels for me, I'll keep using it.

    Scott

    well said scott, thanks for your words, i agree 100% .
    My Portfolio - http://alexs3d.blogspot.com - Now with Photography

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlvphoto View Post
    When my creative journey took me back into a world that required significant 3D work in 2015 to accomplish that photography and 2D digital art couldn't accomplish (after a seven year fork into that 2D world), I looked at all of the major and some of the minor packages out there. I originally started with Lightwave with way back with version 1.0 and it was still my primary (only for the most part) 3D package up until 2005 or so when my need for 3D dropped off to the point I could just as easily fake it in Photoshop. I picked LW back up in 2015 instead of Maya, C4D or even Houdini because of the way Layout works. It's the closest thing I've seen in any package to how I think as a photographer, both in how the camera operates and how the scene is manipulated, displayed and laid out on screen. It's "stage" is basically your production set and represents the real world in terms of how it presents the abstract internal 3D world to you.

    Nothing else I've encountered has come close to that. Houdini (my 2nd favorite currently; I loves me some nodes, yo!) is close but nothing, out of the box, and ***by design*** gives me that feeling of sitting in a virtual studio staring through a real camera at my scene. I *think* that way when setting things up. Everything else feels way too much like a CAD or engineering or construction program of some kind and that's abstraction paradigm just doesn't work.

    For creatives working, by and large, on images and productions that have to fit into the "real world" of live video or just rendering images to give a viewer a sense of a real world story, this is beyond gold in value.

    Say what you will about the power behind the tools in some of the other packages, the seamless, simplicity of setting my camera to the settings I would if I was photographing a given scene and just start laying out my objects and elements and lights without hassling with viewport configurations or whatever the h**l Blender users have to do in order to even manipulate their camera properly, Layout lets me just get to work the moment it's GUI is up and my objects are loaded.

    This will keep me coming back to Lightwave as my primary layout engine for years to come. Until I can either get Houdini to mimic this by default, or something else adopts this simplicity, I will at wort be using FBX back and forth to other packges for this kind of layout flexibility. For now, Lightwave 2020 is still my primary layout and rendering (with octane for most things, but some scenes just won't fit in my GPU.. anyone want to donate a couple of RTX 3090's to a starving artist? 40GB with nvlink should be almost enough for a scene I 'm working on right now. <G>).

    Modeler is a weak spot for me, but then, modeling has been my kryptonite since Modeler3D was my modeler on my Amiga 500 ( then Imagine on my A3000) way way way back in the day so I don't join in on any of the critiques (gods, that's such a nice word for the posts about modeler) about Modeler that I see floating around.

    I am saddened by what I see going on in the Lightwave community, and in some ways I'd almost want a return to the wastelands I wandered through between late 2015 and the release of 2018 when everyone woke up from their hybernation and the community came alive again. Toxic is a word, uncreative and wasteful of creative energy is probably a better way to put it.

    Am I concerned with what VizRT is going to do with Lightwave going forward? Yes. Do I have opinions on what can be done to make it the star attraction in so, so many things that VizRT is front and center of (hello, virtual real time sets!!), YES! It wouldn't take much in the way of developer time to integrate Quixel, Substance, Gaea and even Houdini right into LW's interface. Just time and dedication to getting it done. Hell, contract a *solid* developer with strong python skills and with knowledge of 3D pipeline development and turn them loose for a few months to get all of that. (well, except houdini.. that'd be a "Major Project" but definitely worthwhile.. hello world class dynamics built right in that Newtek/VizRT doesn't have to develop and maintain...).

    So no real doom and gloom here. I just landed three Sci-fi book cover projects due in less than 2 weeks that I wouldn't even begin to attempt without the Lightwave and the way it works for me. I did this by going live on zoom with the client and roughing out the ideas over dinner this weekend. Being able to do that, in Layout, is something I wouldn't have even attempted in anything else I've used or even seen used. Too many buttons to push, dialogs to fill out, nodes to connect, etc.. to get simple things done to even prep a scene for a quick test render. I just loaded Layout, pulled in assets from my library and started 'sketching' as the client and I discussed what he wanted.

    As long as Lightwave keeps painting all the pretty pixels for me, I'll keep using it.

    Scott
    What Scott said.

  12. #27
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    LWs excellent modeler is used for a lot of new stuff, albeit often other renderers. I for one am never going use anything else - I find the modeler absolutely superior, and I love that it is separated from the scene setup in layout.
    - Ignorance is bliss...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerelium View Post
    LWs excellent modeler is used for a lot of new stuff, albeit often other renderers. I for one am never going use anything else - I find the modeler absolutely superior, and I love that it is separated from the scene setup in layout.
    How can you find Modeler absolutely superior when you're never using anything else? Superior compared to what???

    Well everyone should use what he likes but I wouldn't use the word superior in conjunction with Modeler.
    Last edited by Marander; 10-26-2020 at 10:42 AM.

  14. #29
    Dreamer Ztreem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    How can you find Modeler absolutely superior when you're never using anything else? Superior compared to what???

    Well everyone should use what he likes but I wouldn't use the word superior in conjunction with Modeler.
    Read the signature, it says it all.

  15. #30
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlvphoto View Post
    I picked LW back up in 2015 instead of Maya, C4D or even Houdini because of the way Layout works. It's the closest thing I've seen in any package to how I think as a photographer, both in how the camera operates and how the scene is manipulated, displayed and laid out on screen. It's "stage" is basically your production set and represents the real world in terms of how it presents the abstract internal 3D world to you.

    Scott
    Exactly what Ivé been saying for many years,( well even pro movie makers said it as well when talking about the workflow in lightwave in movie productions, but they mostly got to say"
    Lightwave has cameras, lights etc"
    They described all that often in a quite ridiculous way, since every other package has that too, it´s the way it i structured other users in other software doesn´t seem to understand, not even those that gone blender all the way.

    Lightwave is the package that presents a setup most close to an environment of a movie stage, neighter blender, modo, houdini comes close to that.
    The others has more of a feel of a 3D construction site, without that Scene stage care, ivé described various situations where the UI get´s in the way in for instance blender, or how it only uses z-x-y axis, where a pitch banking heading term would be more appropiate for cameras and lights, and it´s horrible camera icon and how to navigate the lights and camera, camera focal areas and much more.
    viewport handling and light viewports etc.

    But unfortunately, that alone doesn´t help out if nothing substancial is done under the hood for the development, nor does no development and no developers either.

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