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Thread: What is Happening with LW?

  1. #976
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    If Kat wantīs in on it, I think there may be a history issue, or maybe not.
    Kat was harsh, straightforward about what he felt about Rob Powers and the handling of lightwave, now if newtek/vizrt in charge may have felt the same way in the sense of that it was mismanaged by Rob..that may not be an obstacle, but
    if they didnīt like to hear such opinions voiced, it could be an obstacle for getting the chance to do business.

    Itīs nice to see Kat have so much passion for Lightwave anyway and that he is willing to take that battle if he is given the opportunity.

  2. #977
    Make Your Films Effective DiscreetFX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeVee View Post
    I can confirm that NewTek "let me go" on the 20th of August. I made sure there's a PDF of the wiki in my notice period in case NT decides to also shut the wiki down. I would encourage everyone to download it. It's not perfect by any means because the export procedure didn't like that I use a heading for captions but it should all be there - bar the animgifs or example files (get them while you can).

    It's mostly been a fun twenty years or so but as someone wiser than me said (Gandalf?! ), this too shall pass.

    B

    How do I download the LightWave 3D PDF please? Do you have a link?
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  3. #978
    ack ack Markc's Avatar
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    It is for LW2020 and available from your account page.
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  4. #979
    I wonder how much they would sell the LightWave IP for?

    Money could be raised to purchase it.

  5. #980
    Registered User jimzombie's Avatar
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    This thread ;-; It would be awesome to see LW in the hands of devs that were invested in it. Bondware aka Renderosity bought Poser last year. Who knows how that's going to work out, but at least someone that cares about the software ended up with the IP. I know LW is a much bigger fishy, and orders of magnitude more complex, but one can dream until all dreams are rendered futile.

  6. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markc View Post
    It is for LW2020 and available from your account page.
    I don't see any documentation PDF download available on my account page for LW2020, and I don't intend on buying LW2020. Is this available for LW2019? If it's not available for LW2019, can the LW2020 documentation be made available in PDF / downloadable format without buying LW2020?

    mTp

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Markc View Post
    It is for LW2020 and available from your account page.
    I don't see any documentation PDF download available on my account page for LW2020, and I don't intend on buying LW2020. Is this available for LW2019? If it's not available for LW2019, can the LW2020 documentation be made available in PDF / downloadable format without buying LW2020?

    mTp

  7. #982
    The pdf manual documentation will only show up in your account page for those versions you have purchased. LW2015 still had a pdf manual included. LW 2018 and 2019 are online documentation only. LW 2020 is an online help file and now has a pdf you can download if you own LW 2020.

  8. #983
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    One thing I've been saying pretty much since 2006 is that NewTek should have developed a standalone version of LightWaves renderengine for other 3DCC apps such as Maya, Max, Cinema 4D and Houdini. They kind of tried that... for Photoshop.... it was called Rendition.... Looking at the renderengine as it is today, it is quite close to Arnold and Mantra, but way more cost effective for renderfarms and for small to midsized productions (still not suitable for LOTR endbattle stuff, obviously).

    With that said, we have an RND project going on at work, where a Houdini artist can light and shade in Houdini, press a button that outputs an .LWS and all .LWOs and then a second button that says "Send to Renderfarm" and the Houdini project is rendered with LW2020.0.2.

    Pretty cool stuff!
    Last edited by Cageman; 10-27-2020 at 04:14 PM.
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  9. #984
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    With that said, we have an RND project going on at work, where a Houdini artist can light and shade in Houdini, press a button that outputs an .LWS and all .LWOs and then a second button that says "Send to Renderfarm" and the Houdini project is rendered with LW2020.0.2.
    So then does that mean you're producing baked, pre-lit textures/texture-sequences throughout? How are you configuring GI to avoid inter-frame anim flicker? Or just no GI?

    Just wondering how you're working around the inter-frame shader/GI consistency issues. GarageFarm recommends as fully-baked textures/sequences as possible, but for anim GI's still potentially an issue.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-27-2020 at 04:35 PM.
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  10. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    One thing I've been saying pretty much since 2006 is that NewTek should have developed a standalone version of LightWaves renderengine for other 3DCC apps such as Maya, Max, Cinema 4D and Houdini. They kind of tried that... for Photoshop.... it was called Rendition.... Looking at the renderengine as it is today, it is quite close to Arnold and Mantra, but way more cost effective for renderfarms and for small to midsized productions (still not suitable for LOTR endbattle stuff, obviously).

    With that said, we have an RND project going on at work, where a Houdini artist can light and shade in Houdini, press a button that outputs an .LWS and all .LWOs and then a second button that says "Send to Renderfarm" and the Houdini project is rendered with LW2020.0.2.

    Pretty cool stuff!
    That is interesting. When you consider they just spent the better part of five years making a new render engine. All just to release the staff who made the render engine and mothball it. They could have done it in such a way, as to have a stand alone render product as well as LW, as you say. It's a good idea. Unfortunately it would still require marketing to gain market share, and they won't do that, ever, for any reason. So I hope they sell LW to someone else at this point.

  11. #986
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingzeta View Post
    That is interesting. When you consider they just spent the better part of five years making a new render engine. All just to release the staff who made the render engine and mothball it. They could have done it in such a way, as to have a stand alone render product as well as LW, as you say. It's a good idea.
    I think their Rendition experience "poisoned the well" for that whole conceptual path with them. And, as you note, success would require plenty of marketing (not just sales ads, but also edu content, material libraries, etc.), so... yeah.
    John W.
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  12. #987
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Meh..developing a standalone version for other apps, when they really had full up on their own?..no in my eyes I donīt think that would have gone well.
    For me there is two huge isses..with a period mark, that is the lack of GPU support, and lack of ..failure to intergrate modeling tools in layout..these are the two huge ones, developing a standalone version for other apps..it would compete with vray, octane,arnold and I fear it would only have slowed down Lightwave as it is today even more.

  13. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Meh..developing a standalone version for other apps, when they really had full up on their own?..no in my eyes I donīt think that would have gone well.
    For me there is two huge isses..with a period mark, that is the lack of GPU support, and lack of ..failure to intergrate modeling tools in layout..these are the two huge ones, developing a standalone version for other apps..it would compete with vray, octane,arnold and I fear it would only have slowed down Lightwave as it is today even more.
    I think Cageman's point was that they could have competed in that space on price, and unlimited render nodes. So if they could have broken off the render engine as a stand alone, they might have made a buck from the wider 3D market, to support more LW development. The render engine was an asset they could have exploited. It's not the ultimate idea for LW, but just another example of how they might have escaped the narrow thinking that made LW a less than profitable product. Ultimately, LW is an incredible creative tool set, that has been owned by a company that makes video switchers for high school football games, and public access cable tv. They don't understand the product LW, and it seems like they never really have. They are like a company that makes staplers, owning a line of fine oil paints, and offering them for sale in a back alley pet store only on Tuesdays.

  14. #989
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingzeta View Post
    I think Cageman's point was that they could have competed in that space on price, and unlimited render nodes. So if they could have broken off the render engine as a stand alone, they might have made a buck from the wider 3D market, to support more LW development. The render engine was an asset they could have exploited.
    Well, yes and no. That "unlimited render nodes" bit cuts potentially deeply, esp. given the lack of certain important features as a render engine would limit the render engine product license cost as well (no intra-frame dispatch, no deferred geometry, limited displacement, and limited/broken CC sub-d support initially). They'd only ever make money on integration licenses, never render nodes, and medium- to large-companies would need relatively few integration licenses to run huge farms.

    Unfortunately, under that plan Newtek would be kind of excluding themselves from where most revenue is for render engines among those medium- to large-scale customers. Free render nodes might make LW a compelling TCO argument for a small set of medium- to large-scale DCC companies, but won't help much with most smaller customers (where feature limitations are much more relevant than render node costs). And, again, huge marketing needs regardless.

    Could it have helped? I believe so, if done significantly earlier (during CORE period perhaps). I'm much less convinced doing so post-LW2018 would have yielded any significant benefit, particularly after how Chronosculpt played out. Still, as a hypothetical nobody can really say for certain. YMMV.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-28-2020 at 02:40 PM.
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  15. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Well, yes and no...
    Spot on (as usual imho) John!

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