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Thread: What is Happening with LW?

  1. #271
    Registered User 3dhotshot's Avatar
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    somebody should just rewrite the entire code
    Last edited by 3dhotshot; 09-06-2020 at 08:13 PM.

  2. #272
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    @ jwiede, Interesting insight, thanks. Do you forsee any process as being quick, or months away - might there typically be an announcement, or our accounts just suddenly vansish one day ?

  3. #273
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Time will tell of course, but I sort of smell a Class Action suit in the brewing here.

    Remember. they sold 2020 knowing there were issues, came out with two updates and it STILL isn't reliably usable. If they just abandon it, someone's gonna have some serious legal issues I suspect. Don't know what the legal term would be, but it can't be good.

    Which of course will make it harder to sell, ...
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  4. #274
    After taking a deep breath, and setting my mental GPS to My Happy Place, this is what I "understand" so far.

    • 3 developers, Jon Tindall, Antti Javela, and David Vrba, are no longer working on Lightwave.
    • According to their Linkedin profiles, each was a contractor, not an employee.
    • VizRT is "reorganizing", and bringing some, if not all, Newtek employees into the main company.
    • Andrew Comb, admin for the Facebook Lightwave3D Support Group, has started a LW->Bl*nder group on Facebook.
    • Andrew has stated he thinks it's time to "move on" from Lightwave, even though he will continue to use it and thinks it is still a very capable program.
    • Andrew isn't discussing specifics behind his reasoning due to an "NDA".

    Now therte are rumors of a multi-million dollar bid for Lightwave that was killed at the last minute, possibly by Andrew Cross, who was allegedly operating mainly without the knowledge of VizRT, so the employees working on Lightwave wouldn't leave.

    So, VizRT let go 3 long-term contractors, and their knowlege base, because they're getting rid of Lightwave, but they don't want to sell Lightwave because they don't want to lose those empoloyees to another company.

    Mistah Kottah, I'm so confused! -- Vinny Barbarino

  5. #275
    I think a 3rd party like Otoy buying Lightwave is much better than Lightwave dev being totally stopped under VizRT. Otoy already has at least a couple former members of the Lightwave team working for them.
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  6. #276
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Well, certainly it's wise to think that everything you read on the internet is correct - right? I mean it must be gospel, chapter and verse because it cites "insiders". All the better when it identifies a dastardly villain, who foiled the obvious good guys. I could wish that about 100 different things I've seen along the way as a LW user had turned out differently; but, while I'm in not able to shed any light on current matters, I have often known enough of what goes on behind the scenes (and the individuals involved) to be completely certain that public speculations are seldom very close to the mark. The stories that often emerge tend to be one-sided and partially informed, at best. In reality, things are always much more complicated and nuanced than they appear.

    Speaking for myself, here - during all of this time I've little doubt that there have been occasional discussions with other parties to explore options for LW's future. The suggestion, however, that either NewTek or Vizrt - both very successful businesses in the real world (not internet fantasies) - would spurn a great deal that they deemed realistic and beneficial strains my credulity a bridge too far.

    (Someone will point out that the best way to dispel speculation is to be open, and I sympathize; but experience also tells me both that this is not by any means always true nor does it always bring about the best outcome for the best for those demanding it.)
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  7. #277
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    If they just abandon it ...
    When did anyone (anyone who matters, that is) say this was the case?
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  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma3rk View Post
    Time will tell of course, but I sort of smell a Class Action suit in the brewing here.

    Remember. they sold 2020 knowing there were issues, came out with two updates and it STILL isn't reliably usable. If they just abandon it, someone's gonna have some serious legal issues I suspect. Don't know what the legal term would be, but it can't be good.

    Which of course will make it harder to sell, ...
    yeah, the upgrade was out only a few months back. I assume they have a bunch of bugfixes that could be released ?

    Occam's Razor..

    LW has been managed into the ground over the years vs gross incompetence and total arrogance ?

    Its a hard one to decide

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Such corporate equity transfers are lengthy and costly, though, so that works against existing valuation as well: For example, if product's sell offer is $2M, but they know they'll spend $1M in salary, legal, and accounting fees during the transfer, tying up most of their legal/accounting resources as well, that seriously impacts the deal's upside to them. It depends highly on the percentage the costs will represent out of total valuation received (don't forget about liability transfer costs, either). Legal and financial complexity in international equity transfers also tend to be quite involved (read as even more lengthy/expensive) just due to additional number of legal domains involved, and the need for representation, etc. valid in all such domains.

    It is entirely possible, quite plausible even, that killing LW makes more sense than selling it, from a financial standpoint.
    Give it away ? Open source? Park a lorry in the back, with the keys in the ignition ?

  10. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Such corporate equity transfers are lengthy and costly, though, so that works against existing valuation as well: For example, if product's sell offer is $2M, but they know they'll spend $1M in salary, legal, and accounting fees during the transfer, tying up most of their legal/accounting resources as well, that seriously impacts the deal's upside to them. It depends highly on the percentage the costs will represent out of total valuation received (don't forget about liability transfer costs, either). Legal and financial complexity in international equity transfers also tend to be quite involved (read as even more lengthy/expensive) just due to additional number of legal domains involved, and the need for representation, etc. valid in all such domains.

    It is entirely possible, quite plausible even, that killing LW makes more sense than selling it, from a financial standpoint.
    Yeah that makes sense. There's always the lawyers. (no offense to any of the lawyers amongst us. )
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  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulk View Post
    After taking a deep breath, and setting my mental GPS to My Happy Place, this is what I "understand" so far.

    • 3 developers, Jon Tindall, Antti Javela, and David Vrba, are no longer working on Lightwave.
    • According to their Linkedin profiles, each was a contractor, not an employee.
    • VizRT is "reorganizing", and bringing some, if not all, Newtek employees into the main company.
    • Andrew Comb, admin for the Facebook Lightwave3D Support Group, has started a LW->Bl*nder group on Facebook.
    • Andrew has stated he thinks it's time to "move on" from Lightwave, even though he will continue to use it and thinks it is still a very capable program.
    • Andrew isn't discussing specifics behind his reasoning due to an "NDA".

    Now therte are rumors of a multi-million dollar bid for Lightwave that was killed at the last minute, possibly by Andrew Cross, who was allegedly operating mainly without the knowledge of VizRT, so the employees working on Lightwave wouldn't leave.

    So, VizRT let go 3 long-term contractors, and their knowlege base, because they're getting rid of Lightwave, but they don't want to sell Lightwave because they don't want to lose those empoloyees to another company.

    Mistah Kottah, I'm so confused! -- Vinny Barbarino


    Might work ?

  12. #282
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    LW has been managed into the ground over the years vs gross incompetence and total arrogance ?
    I've never argued things have been handled perfectly, but these sort of comments are just ridiculous. Another version of the same events runs "Plucky little company defends contender for decades through hard times and massive shifts in the industry long after most others threw in the towel or were gobbled up.". But that wouldn't fit the preferred storyline for some, would it.
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  13. #283
    And I was just beginning to feel real good about LW's future. While 2020 wasn't the most feature rich upgrade, 2018 and 2019 have been really great. There has been a lot of little things added in these upgrades that have made life better and I feel sorry for all those folks that haven't upgraded from 2015 and below, they have really missed out! There is much more there than just a rendering upgrade. (Although that's my favorite part. )
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  14. #284
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    (Someone will point out that the best way to dispel speculation is to be open, and I sympathize; but experience also tells me both that this is not by any means always true nor does it always bring about the best outcome for the best for those demanding it.)
    Sure, but you are not really clarifying anything SBowie(though that perhaps or most likely that isnīt your intention with your recent posts)
    But donīt you think it has reached a point now where all these speculations will just continue to do more damage, and in the case as you a moderator and not a spokesman directly for that section will not exactly help settle the whole dust cloud right now..or if you guys still wantīs the speculations to rise even more?

    Just talk to the guys Sbowie, like Andrew Cross that is responsible I guess? encourage him to give some insurances wether or not thereīs any truth to the rumours of shutting down lightwave, or selling?
    if not..then we can just go about business as usual, thereīs nothing more to it..if you can and have the power to reach him that is, advice them it has been quite toxic in here now.
    Something is better than nothing, unless complete nonsense

    My prometheus cents on that.

    got to go and rest in my night coffin now, but please just do a print out of all the posts around this matter, bring it to the monday morning meeting and place it on Andrew Cross Desks, Or some other in charge...but keep a certain distance for the sake of safety (cryptic meaning)
    I am however guessing you may be to busy..or that it is simply not within your mandate to interfere with?

  15. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Sure, but you are not really clarifying anything SBowie(though that perhaps or most likely isnīt your intention with your recent posts)
    But donīt you think it has reached a point now where all these speculations will just continue to do more damage, and in the case as you a moderator and not a spokesman directly for that section will not help settle the whole dust cloud right now?

    Just talk to the guys Sbowie, like Andrew Cross that is responsible I guess? encourage him to give some insurances wether or not thereīs any truth to the rumours of shutting down lightwave, or selling?
    if not..then we can just go about business as usual, thereīs nothing more to it..if you can and have the power to reach him that is, advice them it has been quite toxic in here now.
    Something is better than nothing, unless complete nonsense


    My prometheus cents on that.
    Yeah we've been here before and every time we are LW loses more users if for no other reason they are sick of the drama.
    Tim Parsons

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