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Thread: Filter Radius setting

  1. #1
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    Filter Radius setting

    Hi All,

    Before I post a bug report can anybody confirm that you can't change the Filter Radius in the Camera Properties to anything below 0.5?

    As a workaround I can use the graph editor to change it to 0 and then delete the Envelope.... but of course that's a bit silly.

  2. #2
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    I can confirm that.
    English is not my native language so please be patient.

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    Super Member kolby's Avatar
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    Me too.
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    Ok I'll report a bug.

  6. #6
    I reported a bug in the previous version where at some ranges under 0.5 it resulted in a crash. Maybe they set a limit until they fix the bug.

  7. #7
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
    I reported a bug in the previous version where at some ranges under 0.5 it resulted in a crash. Maybe they set a limit until they fix the bug.
    That's gonna be my guess as well, but still needs to be 'spalined. .5 was the suggested default in some vid I saw eons ago.
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  8. #8
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    It appears not to be a bug but a deliberate limit. According to Support:

    Because below .5 is not recommended, nor desired.

    This is not a bug, but a preventative.
    However, when working with denoising you should not want any filtering done on the Monte Carlo noise that brute force generates as the denoising algorithms use this noise pattern to smooth out/denose the image. I have made some example images and responded that the old setting needs to be re implemented. In fact, this 'change' actually crippled the output of LW's own native denoiser as it aparantly works on the same principle as the Open Image Denoiser from Intel (which is much better by the way).

    GPU denoiser Filter Radius 0
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    GPU denoiser Filter Radius 0.5
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    OIDN denoiser Filter Radius 0
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    OIDN denoiser Filter Radius 0
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    What I wonder about is why does the LW Group team talks about these kind of changes. There is absolutely NO harm in having this setting being set to 0. Support says it is 'not desired'.... Why? Who determines if it is not desired? If I want crisp images, then let me decide to set Filter Radius to 0.

    I guess I'm lucky that I there is a workaround via the envelope editor (which coincidentally is a bug now that we know the 0.5 limit is a feature)

    They should really, REALLY revoke that decision as it affects their own software in a very negative way as you can clearly see in the above images.

  9. #9
    am i being dense or is not the following true, if I have the filter set to .5 I get AA noise reduction on CPU, if I set it higher, 1 for instance, I get incrementally less AA noise reduction on CPU, and if I set it to lower than .5 AA goes up incrementally more, genuine question because I tend to raise the adaptive number so it works less, then increase samples to get smoother outcome

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry_g View Post
    am i being dense or is not the following true, if I have the filter set to .5 I get AA noise reduction on CPU, if I set it higher, 1 for instance, I get incrementally less AA noise reduction on CPU, and if I set it to lower than .5 AA goes up incrementally more, genuine question because I tend to raise the adaptive number so it works less, then increase samples to get smoother outcome
    I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

    I'm talking about denoiseing either with the GPU (NVIDIA) option or with DP's Open Image Denoiser from Intel (CPU). The setting I'm talking about is the Filter Radius, not AA.

    With convolutional neural network denoisers you should not mess with the noise being generated by the Monte Carlo renderer. If you do, the neural network gets confused and you will get weird artefacts as shown in my sample images. Any setting above 0 for Filter Radius creates a correlation between neighbouring pixels and hence the denoising fails.

  11. #11
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the filter radius is for the reconstruction filter for Anti-aliasing. I got screamed at by someone here for using nonsensical values in the filter radius setting back in January of 2018.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryslin View Post
    Unfortunately, the filter radius is for the reconstruction filter for Anti-aliasing. I got screamed at by someone here for using nonsensical values in the filter radius setting back in January of 2018.
    I kind of got the same thing but support is on it now as they could recreate the issue so it has been dispatched to the correct department now. I don't know exactly what the filter does, but when set to '0' the filter is off yet anti aliasing still occurs. Support said that the setting was put to 0.5 because of black screen renderings..... I've done TONS of renderings on setting '0' since 2018 and never ever got a black screen so don't really know what they were referring to. The consequences however, are pretty bad when doing denosing with this setting enabled... so I urged support to at least be in control and let me decide what to do.

    I actually would really like to know what the filter really does. As far as I know the filter just looks at a wider 'range' where anti aliasing has to occur. I think it just takes the radius (in pixels) and averages that and then the anti aliasing occurs. Anyway, if someone has the exact answer, I would welcome that.

  13. #13
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    I know it has to do with 'signal reconstruction', and has been a part of Renderman since the early 00's.

    I found this in the docs : https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019/...uction-filters
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryslin View Post
    I know it has to do with 'signal reconstruction', and has been a part of Renderman since the early 00's.

    I found this in the docs : https://docs.lightwave3d.com/lw2019/...uction-filters
    What you refer to are the actual anti-aliasing methods. these work with the Radius Filter disabled so the Radius Filter does 'something' in addition to that and I would like to know what.

    I actually might do some experimenting with the Circle method and the Radius Filter as that method seems to incorporate an importance weighting based on Radius Filter.

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