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Thread: Game Over Man visual FX created in Lightwave

  1. #61
    Big Kahuna TreyX's Avatar
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    amazing work, brother.

  2. #62
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    I assume you really busy Mr Rid, I was just wondering if you would be up to set up a patreon or maybe a mentor kind of program for people interesting in learning Lightwave 3D from scratch but also for producers or studios looking into changing pipelines. You are probably the most experience VFX artist using Lightwave 3D, with top nocht results, and I seriously believe this could be a great big changer. Maybe something to do as a team, in order to split tasks, but deff you on top as reference artist...what are your thoughts about it?

  3. #63
    Profesor Pixel Poo Mr Rid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inakito View Post
    ... I was just wondering if you would be up to set up a patreon or maybe a mentor kind of program for people interesting in learning Lightwave 3D from scratch...
    Prometheus should mentor.

    I really dont think I have much info to pass on that isnt covered in ample tutorials and threads. And I try to answer questions.

    But unless Newtek has a particularly ambitious business plan to expand their market, that they care to share confidentially, then there is no advantage in my putting time into teaching or promoting. Anyone looking for a career should be learning industry standard apps. Even hobbyists might as well be hobbying in apps that have the most job opportunities.

    Around 2000, I struggled with v1 of ReaFlow. Next Limit support was in Spain, in an opposite time zone. I emailed them often with numerous problems, and to my surprise they would usually patch the software overnight (daytime in Spain) and fixes were waiting when I checked email first thing in the morning. They were the best support I ever experienced. We swapped many dozens of emails before I asked why they were so attentive.

    They explained that at that time they had only sold some hundreds of licenses and were intent on expanding their market and software, which they did big time. They recognized that I was pushing RealFlow in production more than anyone else, so they were seriously listening to all my requests, knowing it would help them make ReaFlow a competitive tool, and they wanted the results for their reel. I had inadvertently fallen into being their main beta tester, and they gave me free licenses and were very appreciative of my recommendations and use of their software.

    On a deadlne, I dont have time for troubleshooting, which I already have to do too much of. Beta testing is not normally worth my time, except in that situation where Next Limit usually fixed the software over night, so I was never left in a bind, and they implemented most of my requests. That is the kind of diligence I expect from Newtek, if I was going to promote Lightwave.

    Early on, I prodded Next Limit to get motion blur working, which was the biggest limitation back then. They solved it about 5 days later. The last time I requested an improvement from Newtek was getting motion blur to work with voxels in new LW (2018+). They replied that it was too much trouble. So, no one should bother using voxels or any tool not well supported.

    I am sure Newtek has their reasons.
    Last edited by Mr Rid; 10-12-2020 at 10:57 PM.
    "O K, so what's the speed of dark?"

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  4. #64

    Any new app on the Horizon Ridlen ?

    LightWave still is Nice for much VFX related stuff.
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  5. #65
    Super Member Chris S. (Fez)'s Avatar
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    Likely a waste of time and energy to dwell. Newtek would have been better off releasing a more stable 2020 before letting the team go. I am sticking with 2019.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    Prometheus should mentor.

    I really dont think I have much info to pass on that isnt covered in ample tutorials and threads. And I try to answer questions.
    Many years ago, I used your technique for manually tracking a shot in Lightwave, for a movie I worked on called "The Road", and also for a film called "Safe". Please accept a belated "thank you" for that.

    And yes, I wish Newtek would have updated Hypervoxels to work with the PBR system. As for motion blur, I would have loved a Motion buffer for Hypervoxels that would allow me to do blur in post, which is how I keep my render times down.

    It is ashamed that it has come to this uncertainty with Lightwave. I remember when the point-releases were chock full of amazing additions (SubD, GI, etc.) that they could have easily charged money for, but didn't. I'll still be using the software until it doesn't run anymore on my system. I'm slowly dabbling with B, but I'm not sure I'll every have the proficiency with it that I do with Lightwave. Too much muscle-memory to fight.

  7. #67
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S. (Fez) View Post
    Likely a waste of time and energy to dwell. Newtek would have been better off releasing a more stable 2020 before letting the team go. I am sticking with 2019.
    Quality's been sketchy at best for the entire LW2018-LW2020 sequence, and its rapid decline was definitely among their more serious issues. LW2019's quality is discernably higher than either LW2018 or LW2020, but that's not saying a whole lot.

    For any sort of "complex material surfaces" with SSS, translucency, non-trivial refl/refr, etc. the LW "PBR render engine" versions have numerous issues. LW2015 offers MUCH greater visual quality for more complex surface materials than any of the LW "PBR" versions, IME. Not only does LW2015 have access to IFW and other important nodal material plugins, but even the native shaders and materials are more stable in general. When it comes to breadth and depth of surfacing support, as well as discoverability and user efficiency in same, I still believe LW2015 kills any LW "PBR" versions.

    Likewise, I find the LW "PBR" versions' lighting capabilities are significantly more limited in practice, with one or more basic light types broken in each version's "final release". LW2015 again offers a much richer set of lighting options incl. excellent, free third-party options, and though they (arguably) may not be as easily "calibrated" as in LW "PBR" engine, they reliably work.

    I really felt lighting was an area where LW2018-LW2020 had the potential to be much stronger than ALL prior versions, and should have been. The actuality was a serious disappointment. Between the broken light types, inter-version compat issues, poor/limited volumetric lighting, all the problems the LW "PBR" engine(s) has with animation lighting, and on and on, I really felt Newtek seriously let customers down with LW "PBR" versions in this incredibly critical area. For anything beyond fairly "basic" still lighting needs, IMO, the LW "PBR" versions had serious lighting issues.

    Currently, I use a mix of LW2019 and LW2015, but find myself increasingly staying in LW2015. The vast majority of my purchased commercial plugins work in LW2015, and with those, LW just has MUCH greater overall capabilities that any of the LW "PBR" releases even with full complements of commercial third-party plugins. Unfortunate, but real.
    Last edited by jwiede; 10-13-2020 at 03:11 PM.
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  8. #68
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Quality's been sketchy at best for the entire LW2018-LW2020 sequence, and its rapid decline was definitely among their more serious issues. LW2019's quality is discernably higher than either LW2018 or LW2020, but that's not saying a whole lot.

    For any sort of "complex material surfaces" with SSS, translucency, non-trivial refl/refr, etc. the LW "PBR render engine" versions have numerous issues. LW2015 offers MUCH greater visual quality for more complex surface materials than any of the LW "PBR" versions, IME. Not only does LW2015 have access to IFW and other important nodal material plugins, but even the native shaders and materials are more stable in general. When it comes to breadth and depth of surfacing support, I still believe LW2015 kills any LW "PBR" versions.

    Likewise, I find the LW "PBR" versions' lighting capabilities are significantly more limited in practice, with one or more basic light types broken in each version's "final release". Again, LW2015 offers a much richer set of lighting options incl. free third-party options, and though they (arguably) may not be as easily "calibrated" as in LW "PBR" engine, they reliably work. While I think lighting was an area where LW2018-LW2020 had the potential to be much stronger than prior versions, the actuality was a serious disappointment, due to so many broken light types, poor/limited volumetric lighting, and other lighting issues -- plus, don't forget all the problems the LW "PBR" engine(s) had with animation lighting (esp. GI).

    Currently, I use a mix of LW2019 and LW2015, but find myself increasingly staying in LW2015. The vast majority of my purchased commercial plugins work in LW2015, and with those, LW just has MUCH greater overall capabilities that any of the LW "PBR" releases even with full complements of commercial third-party plugins. Unfortunate, but real.
    You may have a point about all that.
    For my ol cloud stuff though, I will never go back to legacy hypervoxels for clouds, but I will go back to that for sprite effects of course, depends on situation if I would do that in 2015 or switch to legacy system in 2019.
    As for surfacing in general PBR VS 2015 surface system, I donīt know enough about the comparison to judge it.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    Prometheus should mentor.

    I really dont think I have much info to pass on that isnt covered in ample tutorials and threads. And I try to answer questions.

    But unless Newtek has a particularly ambitious business plan to expand their market, that they care to share confidentially, then there is no advantage in my putting time into teaching or promoting. Anyone looking for a career should be learning industry standard apps. Even hobbyists might as well be hobbying in apps that have the most job opportunities.

    Around 2000, I struggled with v1 of ReaFlow. Next Limit support was in Spain, in an opposite time zone. I emailed them often with numerous problems, and to my surprise they would usually patch the software overnight (daytime in Spain) and fixes were waiting when I checked email first thing in the morning. They were the best support I ever experienced. We swapped many dozens of emails before I asked why they were so attentive.

    They explained that at that time they had only sold some hundreds of licenses and were intent on expanding their market and software, which they did big time. They recognized that I was pushing RealFlow in production more than anyone else, so they were seriously listening to all my requests, knowing it would help them make ReaFlow a competitive tool, and they wanted the results for their reel. I had inadvertently fallen into being their main beta tester, and they gave me free licenses and were very appreciative of my recommendations and use of their software.

    On a deadlne, I dont have time for troubleshooting, which I already have to do too much of. Beta testing is not normally worth my time, except in that situation where Next Limit usually fixed the software over night, so I was never left in a bind, and they implemented most of my requests. That is the kind of diligence I expect from Newtek, if I was going to promote Lightwave.

    Early on, I prodded Next Limit to get motion blur working, which was the biggest limitation back then. They solved it about 5 days later. The last time I requested an improvement from Newtek was getting motion blur to work with voxels in new LW (2018+). They replied that it was too much trouble. So, no one should bother using voxels or any tool not well supported.

    I am sure Newtek has their reasons.
    I remember reading stories in the Amiga magazines about how quickly Newtek would/could turnaround a feature request or bug fix for a production house, with the new features and fixes making their way into the release versions at some point. Or am I suffering from Mandela Effect?

  10. #70

    I remember
    you're right, it might have been from Siggraph, can't recall...
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  11. #71
    Registered User gdkeast's Avatar
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    One thing I like about this forum is some of the comments I read, which I find profound. To this date, this is one of my favorites.


    DAVID RIDLEN
    I just despise the rigid complexity of all things computer related, that inherently oppose spontaneous creativity. The majority of my time is spent troubleshooting and cursing. I rarely get to enjoy the work since it is usually a process of such incremental achievement, I dont get to sit back and take in an overall result with surprise. Each iteration is usually a small step forward, 'Ok, that one glitch is fixed... but now that is screwed up. That doesn't look right.' Redo, render it again, and again, and again... until I cannot see it objectively anymore. I stare at the final animation looping, trying to see it objectively, but I can't tell the effect of what I did anymore. The process is so mired in technical convolution, I find computer animation to be too much of an endurance test to fully enjoy, as opposed to more organically immediate art forms. It requires a certain, high-functioning form of OCD ("perfectionist" is the more flattering term), that takes precedence over social life, proper sleep, and trying to not throw things. I think I have just been doing it too long.

  12. #72
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    One thing I like about this forum is some of the comments I read, which I find profound. To this date, this is one of my favorites.


    DAVID RIDLEN
    I just despise the rigid complexity of all things computer related, that inherently oppose spontaneous creativity. The majority of my time is spent troubleshooting and cursing. I rarely get to enjoy the work since it is usually a process of such incremental achievement, I dont get to sit back and take in an overall result with surprise. Each iteration is usually a small step forward, 'Ok, that one glitch is fixed... but now that is screwed up. That doesn't look right.' Redo, render it again, and again, and again... until I cannot see it objectively anymore. I stare at the final animation looping, trying to see it objectively, but I can't tell the effect of what I did anymore. The process is so mired in technical convolution, I find computer animation to be too much of an endurance test to fully enjoy, as opposed to more organically immediate art forms. It requires a certain, high-functioning form of OCD ("perfectionist" is the more flattering term), that takes precedence over social life, proper sleep, and trying to not throw things. I think I have just been doing it too long.
    A masterful quote, sums up what I do every day.
    Unfortunately all software is designed by someone who doesn't think like the next person, so paradigms rarely ever fit every mindset.
    Even using substance painter can be a chore. Adding some text using a particular font, or even copying and pasting an effect from one layer to another (which isn't possible)... I want software that thinks like me, but unfortunately no one else will be able to use it ��
    LairdSquared | 3D Design & Animation

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