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Thread: lw 2020.0.1 edge shader ... bug?

  1. #1
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    lw 2020.0.1 edge shader ... bug?

    seems that lightwave3d 2020.0.1 had some problem on edge shader
    here a sample when i add it to a simple cilinder with that value...
    check the foot... first edge shader node not attaced, second is attachedClick image for larger version. 

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    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    because you have convex and concave so its trying to round the surface under the foot to the foot, probably need to turn off concave,
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  3. #3
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    because you have convex and concave so its trying to round the surface under the foot to the foot, probably need to turn off concave,
    it's a single flat poly... edge shader must check only the edge, you not have edge in that area... seems like instead to work like shader that work like postpro. i used many edge shader, over many rendering engine, and this is a first time i saw something of that.
    standard setup is with both enable, if i disable it work, but there isn't reason to do that.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    also if i select "only self" work fine.
    like ever with lightwave from 1991 when i start with it, default value is never right ...
    new render engine is quite good, but ...
    search on doc is a pain in ***... i regret the time of old but good pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pixelinfected View Post
    ...search on doc is a pain in ***... i regret the time of old but good pdf...
    2 Tips...

    Notice the name in the node panel is "edgeshader", not "edge shader". Be sure to type edgeshader in the LW docs search.

    You can also use quotation marks to search for specific phrases. Searching for "edge shader" wrapped in quotation marks returns 2 results instead of 235.
    LW4, 7.5D, 2015, 2018, 2019, 2020 running portably on a USB drive on an Amiga 2500 running Wine.

  5. #5
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    2 Tips...

    Notice the name in the node panel is "edgeshader", not "edge shader". Be sure to type edgeshader in the LW docs search.

    You can also use quotation marks to search for specific phrases. Searching for "edge shader" wrapped in quotation marks returns 2 results instead of 235.
    right.... my fault :-P
    but i continue to regret old pdf version, simplier and more infos... i can had on my tablet, sign what i need, add infos, and more.
    many part of software are more documented. like old user i can continue to use it, but newer user cannot do, and miss a lots.
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  6. #6
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    uhm i continue to think there is of bug. i check the doc (thanks).
    Only Self - If you have multiple objects or surfaces using the Edge Shader, and they encroach on each other's position, the Edge Shader will smooth over the join unless this option is checked
    only one geometry on layer, a cilinder, only one surface assigned. If "only Self" work fine, if not selected not work fine... but if you check the picture by the visual angle at right there isn't smooting of angle.
    I tried same geometry with octane edge smooth and work fine, i tried on cinema4d, standard engine with edgefx, work fine.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    seems not a normal edge rendering but a derivation of old phong algorithm.
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  7. #7
    Select either concave or convex. Having both selected makes no sense. Or how about just adding a chamfer? Geo is usually better than faking it.
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  8. #8
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    Select either concave or convex. Having both selected makes no sense. Or how about just adding a chamfer? Geo is usually better than faking it.
    We talk about an object, not a surface, then an obj can have both kind of edge. Like you I prefer usually to do edge fillet by geometry, but sometimes when you build a complex obj from nurnies or (often) build an obj with ability to change later the fillet, the smoothing by shader allow you to not rebuild every time the obj.
    I’m used from 7 years to do geometrically with Cinema 4d, a defomer add a parametric edge, which I can animate and change later.
    Ones of reasons to have a single app to model and animate, the ability to build a deformer stack that can change geometry like in Cinema 4d, but I think like also in maya, Mac and Houdini.
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  9. #9
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    Select either concave or convex. Having both selected makes no sense.
    Huh? Of course it does. That's referring to which types of intersections the shader should be applied. Selecting both means you want edge-rounded shading on both convex and concave intersections. "Concave" refers to any "interior angle" > 180deg, while "convex" refers to any "interior angle" < 180deg. A 180deg "interior angle" is coplanar, obvies.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    Huh? Of course it does. That's referring to which types of intersections the shader should be applied. Selecting both means you want edge-rounded shading on both convex and concave intersections. "Concave" refers to any "interior angle" > 180deg, while "convex" refers to any "interior angle" < 180deg. A 180deg "interior angle" is coplanar, obvies.
    In his situation. Which I assume is a simple chamfer top and bottom of that disk.
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  11. #11
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    my dubs is that if i put this shader on more complex geometry, how can manage it? think to build a stage with structure behind and over, where you buy a no beveled structure, i cannot think to bevel every single elements, from years i'm used to edge shading by normal this kind of geometry, in past i remember i had bought a shader from "happy digital" if i remember correctly, the same of Hd instance for lw, that allow me to do this kind of things without problems. algo should only find edge, calculate angele and build normal info to smooth that.
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  12. #12
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Edge shading is a rendering trick and may be unpredictable in some cases. The LW docs promote modeling over this method for important scene items.

    You may also want to experiment with other edge shader nodes, such as DP Kit. https://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/p...l_Nodes_2.html

    However, what you are attempting should work fine with the native LW edgeshader.
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  13. #13
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raymondtrace View Post
    Edge shading is a rendering trick and may be unpredictable in some cases. The LW docs promote modeling over this method for important scene items.

    You may also want to experiment with other edge shader nodes, such as DP Kit. https://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/p...l_Nodes_2.html

    However, what you are attempting should work fine with the native LW edgeshader.
    i know that is a rendering trick, but i use it from many years (with happy digital and with dpot shader), with old render engine i never find problems like that, new engine may have something of different on how ray are hitted on surface and change the result of normal infos.
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    With this kind of faked rounded edge, there's often an issue,
    with light shadows, which are tied to real geometry and diffuse shading,
    may be lowered by modifying light orientation
    or other lighting trick for minoring hard shadows?

    ...Well speaking of a secondary issue here,
    but a limitation.

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    Denis.
    Last edited by dpont; 06-24-2020 at 04:07 AM.

  15. #15
    Mad Doctor pixelinfected's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpont View Post
    With this kind of faked rounded edge, there's often an issue,
    with light shadows, which are tied to real geometry and diffuse shading,
    may be lowered by modifying light orientation
    or other lighting trick for minoring hard shadows?

    ...Well speaking of a secondary issue here,
    but a limitation.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Denis.
    thanks for answer Denis :-D
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