Off Topic - Realallusion usefull ?

[Greenlaw]

yepzi pepsi, in 2019   
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/04/appl...e-company.html

Hey, thanks for the link! I hadn't had a chance to look up anything myself yet.

LW is most limited when it comes to combining multiple mocap files i suppose ?

Yeah. I mean we have Motion Mixer, which is kinda like the non-linear timeline editing in Motion Builder but Motion Mixer is a little clunky by comparison. That said, it's what we used to mix motions on some of those Call Of Duty commercials I worked on way back when I was with R+H. Also, the animators I worked with used Motion Mixer to mix horse mocap for an oil commercial we made.

And as you've noted, there are native (IK Boost, Nevronmotion) and third party tools to make retargeting motion and editing keyframes easier, so LightWave is certainly capable.

One thing LW doesn't have is Motion Builder's animation layers. It's like having Photoshop layers for animation...well, kinda, sorta, maybe not really? Animation layers provides a way to non-destructively add keyframes on top the original animation data, so it's literally like adding layers in Photoshop. This allowed me to try a variety of ways to fix or alter the animation, and not worry about screwing up the original animation in the base layer.

Oh, and I also found applying and editing mocap to the cats' digitigrade legs in B2 was easier with MB. Actually, that was a big part of why I used MB for the B2 short. I was also using MB to 'auto-animate' parts of the cats in some shots, like their tails. But I guess nowadays, I could create a similar setup using Bullet Bone Dynamics in LightWave.

That's the problem with taking forever to make a short: the technology keeps changing and improving but my project gets stuck in time with old tools and techniques.

[Greenlaw]

Sorry, double post

[Greenlaw]

I just took a look at the ikinema website. Wow, it's pretty much a ghost of itself. All I see is a link to the documentation for their tools (including Web Animate) but everything else is gone. No purchase, download or support pages, and not even a real contact page either. Looks like 2015 was the last time the Web Animate software was updated.

[erikals]

yea, i think Apple pretty much threw that under the...

One thing LW doesn't have is Motion Builder's animation layers. It's like having Photoshop layers for animation...well, kinda, sorta, maybe not really? Animation layers provides a way to non-destructively add keyframes on top the original animation data, so it's literally like adding layers in Photoshop. This allowed me to try a variety of ways to fix or alter the animation, and not worry about screwing up the original animation in the base layer.

there is this new thing tho, this animation layers plugin
Animation Layers [Eathorne Robby]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV9DJodVcPg

That's the problem with taking forever to make a short: the technology keeps changing and improving but my project gets stuck in time with old tools and techniques.

myeah, sort of, i did have a wish tho that CA would be a tenfold easier by now, but technology still seems taking its time.

[Greenlaw]

That is very cool!

Thanks for posting the link Erikals. I usually pay attention for these things but somehow that one completely slipped by me.

[erikals]

That is very cool!

haven't had the time to test, but it looks powerful.

he usually posts on FB / YT, not so much here i think.

[TheLexx]

In addition to Robby's animation layers plugin mentioned by erikals, there appears to be Ryan Roye animation layers and Oliver Hotz animation layers, but I'm not sure who wins the dogfight between them all.

[erikals]

Robby's Animation Layers

the big plus with Robby's is that it supports multiple layers.
that's totally new, and wasn't possible until just recently.
a very important addition to LightWave.



NT should buy it, implement it.
or something along those lines.

RR Tools also will speed things up drastically.
RHiggit Tools also.

[Ma3rk]

In addition to Robby's animation layers plugin mentioned by erikals, there appears to be Ryan Roye animation layers and Oliver Hotz animation layers, but I'm not sure who wins the dogfight between them all.

Well, we know that Oliver's won't get any more attention. Mr. Robby's looks pretty useful, & will keep an eye on that. Finally got some animation to export via FBX but what a scad of keys of course. Was able to clean that up some with RH's Animation Toolbox, but I need to learn the finesses of it.

Didn't look into Ryan's plug but will be investigating IKBooster much more seriously now.

[madno]

Thanks for your insights.

Seems to me, those who have tested / used Reallusion software are not so impressed. And if interest is there at all than only regarding the Pipline versions and with 3dexchange.

[Ma3rk]

Not to flog the deceased equine, but I happened across a couple FBX exports out of CC3 that I saved. Initially of course, I imported my normal way which is Lightwave Bones + Baked Rotations. And, well, this is what I was typically getting at best:



Ya.

So, while thumb-twiddling, waiting for a new software license (i.e. very low threshold of boredom), I decided to see what was specifically different between the FBX types. The structure is different than that out of DAZ, so I though well maybe try a different option at the import stage. Of course the last option left that I could try was the Motion Plugin + bake rotations.

Whoa, now this looks promising!



Still some other issues such as renaming every weight map, but there might be ways around that.

Basically, if I could have gotten just that simple tidbit of info, I might have explored it further & perhaps even bought it.

But, I think I've found better options now.

[ConjureBunny]

I'll have a replacement for most of Ikinema's offerings by the end of this summer on Glycon3D.com
(They were bought by Apple. )

[Greenlaw]

Thanks for your insights.

Seems to me, those who have tested / used Reallusion software are not so impressed. And if interest is there at all than only regarding the Pipline versions and with 3dexchange.

I think I'm the only user here who bought the fully functional iClone and 3DXchange Pipeline but, yeah, I haven't used it enough to offer a serious critique or endorsement yet. For me, the program has potential and it may eventually help in my work but, it's still early for me to know if it will be useful to other LightWave users. I'm actually looking into this right now and will try to post more helpful info soon.

BTW, this is not the first time I dabbled with iClone. About 10 years ago I purchased iClone 3. This was back when I started thinking about an animated version of my webcomic Brudders and iClone seemed like a cheap solution for using canned and custom mocap, and realtime 'game engine' rendering was a plus. I didn't mind the cheesy 'machinima' qulality because I wanted the series to look like it was made by cats. (Okay, very clever cats.)

I found iClone 3 fun to play with but there was no way to import custom 3D assets unless I used 3DS Max or Maya user. I couldn't even use my mocap system iClone 3. I asked the developer about supporting LightWave and iPi Mocap Studio, and they told me they were working on a way to support 3D programs universally. So, iClone 3 was a big disappointment but decided to revisit it another day.

Afterwards, I made a 3D short called Happy Box using LightWave and iPi Mocap Studio, and a 2D short called Scareplane using Moho Pro and LightWave. These shorts were made for fun and they were finished relatively quickly, but realistically the process was still too time-consuming for a regular web series. My next short, 'B2', really drove that point home...it's been years and I still haven't finished this film. Granted, for these projects, I set the bar higher than what could have I expected from iClone 3, but if I was really serious about making a periodical 3D cartoon series, I needed a faster animation pipeline pipeline.

Eventually, Reallusion released their interchange add-on for iClone called 3DXchange Pipeline. They also added an advanced realtime renderer (iRay), and iClone's fx tools have gotten much better too.

iClone 7 is the latest version and, starting tonight, I'll be testing it specifically for compatibility with LightWave and iPi Mocap Studio assets. I'll write more about iClone when I have something interesting to show...or if I fail spectacularly with my new 'toy'.

Since the OP also asked about Reallusion's Cartoon Animator, as mentioned earlier, we use a similar program at work called Moho Pro to animate characters for our TV shows. Both are 2D animation programs that use bones and IK to animate drawings.

Besides having a solid bones and IK system, Moho Pro's key strength is its Smart Bone Actions system. This is essentially a set driven key system to attaching any animateable Moho property to bones and dial controls. This is nothing new to 3D animators but it's quite unique for animating 2D drawing, and it gives Moho animators a lot of flexibility to pose and animate characters to look like fully hand-drawn animations. To see examples, check out the Kung Fu Panda and Boss Baby footage on my 2019 demo reel. I've been using Moho Pro for about 7 years now, and Moho Pro 12.5 is still one of my favorite ways to animate 2D cartoons. (Less thrilled about the current version of Moho Pro 13 but I'll write more about that elsewhere.)

Moho Pro is very fast and fun to animate with but it can take a lot of time to build studio production quality rigs like the ones we built for Boss Baby. This why I've taken an interest in Cartoon Animator. CA has interesting 'auto-rigging' tools and, like iClone, it has a system for re-using and mixing existing animation with different character. I'm not interested CA's mocap input features (I think mocap on 2D cartoons always looks kinda squishy and bad,) but I like the idea of re-purposing rigs and hand-keyframed animations on different characters. Moho animators have come up with clever workarounds to re-use rigs and aninmation, but CA comes with tools specifically designed for this purpose.

But, just like with iClone, I just started learning Cartoon Animator, and it's just too soon for me to say if it's a viable alternative to using Moho Pro. Sorry, I know this is getting really OT for a LightWave forum but some day I'll write a review comparing Moho Pro and Cartoon Animator, and post that on my website.

Ok, back to testing iClone now...

[madno]

Agreed, I posted an off topic question, but for me DCC work is anyway a huge pipline feast. I have more questions about how to get something from A to B than how to do something in A or B (well, that's not true - the ammount of questions to both is the same and equals to endless).

I am very interested in your findings Greenlaw.

[Greenlaw]

This morning I re-read my post and--ew! Sorry for all the typos. I was really tired when I wrote that last night.