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Thread: DP open image denoiser - use a different normal image ?

  1. #1
    geo messy madno's Avatar
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    DP open image denoiser - use a different normal image ?

    I hope I can explain:

    Testing DP open image denoiser in LW 2020 - so far quite impressed.

    But, have a render that seem to loose details because of noise in the normal pass.

    I can't increase the AA samples much more because of render times.

    But I can render the normal pass only (disabling all lights etc.) with super high AA in a few seconds.

    Normal pass with low AA samples:
    I assume the Intel denoise algorithm interprets some of the fuzzy lines as noise.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Normal-low_AA.png 
Views:	45 
Size:	236.6 KB 
ID:	148002

    Normal pass with high AA:
    The idea is, to give the denoiser the below normal pass, to see if it works better.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Normal-high_AA.png 
Views:	30 
Size:	241.1 KB 
ID:	148001

    But I don't know if this is possible at all with DP's implementation of the plugin.
    So far I just can enable it in the Image filter and it denoises what it gets from the current active render.

    Question is, can I feed the alternate normal image somehow into it?

  2. #2
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Hmm...what happens if you load the rendered normal image file back in as an image buffer and feed that as normal buffer input?

    @Denis (as he'll likely read this thread), something's also up with MacUB version of OpenImageDenoise_2018.plugin, getting "Cannot open external plugin file" + 0/1 plugin dialogs on attempted add in LW2020.1UB64 (10.13.6). Same package/binary loads fine in LW2019.1.5UB64 (same machine).

    I'll repost in separate thread if easier for you to track.
    Last edited by jwiede; 05-29-2020 at 04:28 PM.
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    ...something's also up with MacUB version of OpenImageDenoise_2018.plugin, getting "Cannot open external plugin file" + 0/1 plugin dialogs on attempted add in LW2020.1UB64 (10.13.6)...
    Sorry I didn't installed LW2020 on a Mac before,
    I can confirm that the tbb library issue is still there on the MacUB,
    so you will need to replace the libtbb.1.0.0.dylib in Bin folder
    by mine included in the zip, like for previous versions.
    I will report this and modify the erroneous readme file.

    Thanks for report,
    Denis.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by madno View Post
    I hope I can explain:

    Testing DP open image denoiser in LW 2020 - so far quite impressed.

    But, have a render that seem to loose details because of noise in the normal pass.

    I can't increase the AA samples much more because of render times.

    But I can render the normal pass only (disabling all lights etc.) with super high AA in a few seconds.

    Normal pass with low AA samples:
    I assume the Intel denoise algorithm interprets some of the fuzzy lines as noise.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Normal-low_AA.png 
Views:	45 
Size:	236.6 KB 
ID:	148002

    Normal pass with high AA:
    The idea is, to give the denoiser the below normal pass, to see if it works better.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Normal-high_AA.png 
Views:	30 
Size:	241.1 KB 
ID:	148001

    But I don't know if this is possible at all with DP's implementation of the plugin.
    So far I just can enable it in the Image filter and it denoises what it gets from the current active render.

    Question is, can I feed the alternate normal image somehow into it?
    Yes this is possible. However, you need to do it in 'post'. So when you rendered your beauty pass, albedo and normal passes, you open a new layout window and only use the denoiser on the rendered images like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Image-only-denoiser.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	360.4 KB 
ID:	148004

    Basically you use Lightwave as a GUI for the denoiser. I use this method to control what passes I want to have denoised. You can, for example, render a fairly noisy Diffuse_Indirect pass and have only that pass denoised before you comp everything into a beauty pass. Saves a lot of render depending on situations.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by madno View Post
    ... can I feed the alternate normal image somehow into it?
    Of course you can,
    first use the EXR format for saving the Normal,
    because you need to keep the negatives values of the Normal channels,
    a PNG has 0-1 clamped values,
    you can load the separate normal pass in an Image node,
    connecting it to the Normal input of the OIDN node,
    but disable Pixel Blending in the Image node.

    Denis.

  6. #6
    geo messy madno's Avatar
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    Many thanks guys and dpont. Based on the tests I would call OIDN a game changer. Used it in Blender and was already impressed and am now the same in LW.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by madno View Post
    Many thanks guys and dpont. Based on the tests I would call OIDN a game changer. Used it in Blender and was already impressed and am now the same in LW.
    You might want to check out this thread as well:https://forums.newtek.com/showthread...ghlight=albedo

    This handles reflected and refracted normal and albedo passes. Works brilliantly on glass and metal surfaces (which normally are pure black in the Normal and Albedo pass). Just wished LW had this capability out of the box (made a feature request for this). DPont made this possible. It's just a little bit more work to set it all up.

  8. #8
    geo messy madno's Avatar
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    Thanks,
    will definately have a look as window glass and refraction creates a mess in GI my test at the moment.

  9. #9
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpont View Post
    Sorry I didn't installed LW2020 on a Mac before,
    I can confirm that the tbb library issue is still there on the MacUB,
    so you will need to replace the libtbb.1.0.0.dylib in Bin folder
    by mine included in the zip, like for previous versions.
    I will report this and modify the erroneous readme file.

    Thanks for report,
    Denis.
    Thanks Denis! That fixed the issue as expected!
    John W.
    LW2015.3UB/2019.1.5 on MacPro(12C/24T/10.13.6),64GB RAM, NV 980ti

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