Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: what's wrong with the metamorphic tools?

  1. #1

    what's wrong with the metamorphic tools?

    Those metamorphic information store at .lws?
    1.When the object save change ,those sculpt info gone wrong!
    2.When the object poly count change whatever more/less,then all metamorphic info "Lost" without warning!!

    Means when you used the metamorphic tools to sculpt your object,you never to hand on your object again!!

  2. #2
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    16,789
    Donīt treat it as a sculpting tool that finishes sculpts and deformation finally, itīs just a deform modifier living in Layout, as such any sculpt is saved with the scene and not the object..unless processed as down below...

    You can just save the sculpt as transformed, which will save the actual mesh it as it was sculpted.

    But another way to save the sculpt made in the mesh, but keeping the main mesh..that is to click on sculpt to morphs, that will save out any sculpt as a morph, and save the object, the morph will be there in the object once saved...you can always check that by
    saving the object properly and in modeler, check the morphs "M" button at the right lower corner in modeler and select proper morph maps.

    For polycount changes, that you can only do with subpatch modifiers, and in such case you need to set the order right for it to affect the mesh right..the sculpt transform isnīt lost if you work it the right way while using increased or decreased subdivisions.

    So itīs nothing wrong with metamorphic, it was designed to foremost create animation morphs, and not a sculpting tool like blenders.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Donīt treat it as a sculpting tool that finishes sculpts......
    Thanks for your reply.

    Mmmmmm..That's a danger Process.
    The user "must" always remember the scene had metamorphic.
    Although after years.
    Or you will lost the sculpt info without warning.

    If use the "sculpt as a morph/morphs"to correct the bone tranformation.Then you need to apply those morphs one by one.So waste time!!!
    I try to save the object a .mdd as a backup.but if the object polycount was change.The .mdd was useless too.

  4. #4
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    16,789
    Quote Originally Posted by moc View Post
    Thanks for your reply.

    Mmmmmm..That's a danger Process.
    The user "must" always remember the scene had metamorphic.
    Although after years.
    Or you will lost the sculpt info without warning.

    If use the "sculpt as a morph/morphs"to correct the bone tranformation.Then you need to apply those morphs one by one.So waste time!!!
    I try to save the object a .mdd as a backup.but if the object polycount was change.The .mdd was useless too.
    Not sure what you mean, the user donīt have to remember, when saving the scene and clearing and reloading, the morph is still there and metamorphic applied with the scene, as long as you save all in the save command.
    morphs are there if you add morph mixer to the object and open that.

    For displacement, itīs also some things to consider, if you apply surface displacement, any displacement for that is saved with the object, and not the scene..so make sure to save all in the command, and for the displacement standard modifier, it is saved with the scene ..and not the object.

  5. #5
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    16,789
    What is wrong with metamorphic, that is that it can not be a decent sculpting tool as of this current time (though it may not have been intended to)
    Foremost an animation morph sculpt tool.
    For me though..I need this or something else to grow as a sculpting tool in layout.

    When I compare to the free sculpting tools in "B" it can obviously not match that as for sculpting, it would foremost need a huge performance on high res mesh,
    and then a way to apply modifier res changes directly in layout without the need of saving out a transformed object and replace it, this needs to happen directly in Layout.

    After that..some careful thoughts about projection, anchored, rectangle and form various viewplans.
    What metamorphic may have going for itself, is that you can sculpt and apply an underlying displacement surface modifier..
    in a better way than I actually can see in the other sculpt app "B"
    And it may also be possible to work with images and procedurals in a smoother way than how you do it in "B"

    And more, it of course needs to be able to created dynamic topo remeshing while sculpting.
    I am a bit sceptic though when it comes to believing that any of this will happen the upcoming years.
    But with what I said on what it has going for itself..compared to "B" and with nodal control also..
    it could have a real potential to perform sculpts which "B" cant..but itīs a long way.

  6. #6
    It's very handy to push and move polys around in Layout.

  7. #7

    I am a bit skeptic though when it comes to believing that any of this will happen the upcoming years.
    this is a big drawback actually.

    "Sculpting" anything in LightWave is Extremely slow.

    Last edited by erikals; 05-16-2020 at 03:24 AM.
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  8. #8
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    sweden stockholm
    Posts
    16,789
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post

    this is a big drawback actually.

    "Sculpting" anything in LightWave is Extremely slow.

    Not anything..it all has a certain threshold when it slows down.
    But for any decent sculpt it doesnīt hold up far.
    And for sculpting a landscape, never use subdivision toggled on ..not until you may apply it on top of the sculpt, a 40 0000 mesh will start to become slow (on my system) when sculpting..itīs doable but should be faster.

    What I like about it though, that is that I can sculpt deform with a surface displacement and the displacement will be intact while I sculpt, and working within the nodal surface editor, turning the displace on or of or switching displacement textures is quite easy.

    And..if you save out to endomorph, and reload the scene, every sculpt can be turned off and on again, and same with displacements, so you can anytyme go from a flat grid to sculpts with displacement active..so all that is non destructive actually.

    But unlike a sculpting special tool..as blender has, you can not increase mesh density..in any ohter way than subdividing and freezing the geometry (yes..freezing is neccessary, you do not sculpt on the subpatch divisions..mererly use that to increase mesh after sculpt)

    We would need a freeze subpatch modifier which collapses the mesh while still having metamorphi active, the way it is now..we would have to either save transformed and replace, or swap between modeler when increasing divisions and go back to layout for sculpting, itīs interfering witht the workflow.

    To compare to blender, I do not think I can do that actually..they live in modifiers and as such (perhaps possible) hard to use..and may even be slower than lw when sculpted on..have to verify this, but it is also harder to change fractal displacement textures, cause they live as individual displacement modifiers, and I think it itīs a mess to work with in terms of stacking fractal textures.

    That said, in blender.the mesh resolution, dynamic mesh creation..with snake hook sculpt and how you can retop woth flood fill etc is way ahead of what we got for sculpting in Lightwave, and also the opengl visualisation with ambient occlusion to properly see cavities.

    So for me..I would like to have the best from those 2, but currently not possible.

    I wonder if metamorphic is faster on the mesh in 2020?
    Will have to try perhaps later this summer.

    Also..to add to positives, I like that it is so easy to sculpt morphs for animations, itīs much easier than shape keys in blender..so with that regard it is nice, but not for any advanced denser mesh sculpting.
    Direct controls and access to morphs ala morphmixer should be built in to the metamorphic UI, and they really need to create a menu for sculpting and a metamorphic sculpt button..and not let it reside hidden in a modifier drop down list...that is just poor bad UX.

    And here we go again..I said to myself and others, I shouldnīt embark on discussing tool develepment or lw development on this forum, but darn hard to restrain myself from it, especially if you are in the middle of working with something tool related.

    I forgot..
    When sculpting a landscape with metamorphic, I would suggest to use that method of not actually displacing sculp with the use nodes for fractal textures, but to use fractal displacement only for finer surface displace ..and that is only set in the surface editor, you can disconnect the surface displace to make it faster to sculpt,and then just connect again, that way you can switch out any surface displacemtn to change or mix from rocks, cracks etc.
    While if you are in need of very special local deformations, you may want to use the use nodes and start with nodal textures, but it will not be efficient for higher levels of detail, so try and keep that a lower, mid level workflow approach.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •