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Thread: So Long.

  1. #46
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdkeast View Post
    LW is my favorite program for a lot of reasons, and ultimately, whichever you choose is a voluntary choice. It does seem like LW users are resourceful and will use whatever program they want, and that's not a problem with UE4 or Unity or Blender and others because they're free. But it doesn't seem to work so much the other way around.

    Even in the LW documentation, it mentions Houdini and Blender, so I don't see why people don't just use what they want to use and get along.

    Attachment 147650
    2 things..

    They do just that, use what they want.
    That however.. is in no way connected to getting along, itīs about interference, either from the point of interest, or commercially.

    1. As for point of interest, going to a certain dedicated forum discussing around another 3D tool will often be perceived as interfering with their main interest.
    2. As for commercially, in a dedicated forum provided by a company for their product.. discussing another 3D tool may be perceived as interfering with their interest of selling their product.



    I think almost anyone can recognize this, the trouble is when and where to place the tolerance of the interfering discussion, and to what levels for setting the bars for that.

  2. #47
    World's Tallest Dwarf safetyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Yes, for former LW users, there is undoubtly so that their opinions are very much colored by harsch feelings still left in their bags..after having to choose another tool, some guys however in discussions with me..have
    a good sense of respecting that I still want to choose to use Lightwave 2019 still, and use it complementary..while others attack for me discussing the tools and where I need to learn something in B etc.

    All that really donīt affect me outside any discussion, it does however interfere with those I talk too, and ..I sometimes canīt restrain myself from debating in sometime silly ways with them, thatīs the level they like to play at
    Depends on mood and time if I even bother about it.

    There is a hickup for some B users... where they attack Lw users for discussing anything else than B, even though it is an allowed general discussion sections, and even if it is a thread dedicated to another software, workflow or releases, that state of mind is just not acceptable for me..the forum hasnīt got a rule to not discuss that, if they do not wish to join in on that..they should just stay out of that section and thread, but there is those trolls whol just like to write and get of to condescending and mocking..so it has been, so it will be.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, so it is, that is true.
    There is no balance often in what is said, itīs taken to itīs extreme, if they say it hasnīt improved..they really mean..for them they see no significant improvement...which is a totally different thing,
    they start their assertments with a short "fact" statement ..only to later in the discussion clarify with the ellaborated.."I ment nothing significant ..and nothing in modeler" etc.

    They are so red and heated that they do not see my own criticism for the latest 2020 release, and why I will choose to not upgrade(this time), just because I speak of I will still use 2019..and I still point out modeling or vfx tasks I simply do not see as easy to do in "B" so the attack starts there sort of.
    One would think..ah, his not going to upgrade and now looks over here, letīs welcome him do a transition...but oh no

    But itīs allright, I will not stop functioning or have to go to a therapist..because of forum members going berserk, just drop it once you are done with your post, and enjoy life as much as possible without even thinking of it
    when you have your daily choirs, then it will just be fine

    It makes you think though.. where and if you need to engage in the forums ..for sharing ideas and learning though, that is perhaps just the only thing that bothers a little bit, you can really get a good connection and help from certain users in a forum, not just embarking on bad tone discussions.
    No offense, but I think you are making generalizations about the entire Blender Artists forum, when it's just a few bitter souls who have made inappropriate comments directed your way. I personally have no issue discussing LW on the BA forum, since I've used it for many many years and have great memories with it. Please just don't hold the entire BA forum accountable for the actions of a few idiots over there. I enjoy your input over at the "dark side" and I try to help folks whenever I can.

  3. #48
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safetyman View Post
    No offense, but I think you are making generalizations about the entire Blender Artists forum, when it's just a few bitter souls who have made inappropriate comments directed your way. I personally have no issue discussing LW on the BA forum, since I've used it for many many years and have great memories with it. Please just don't hold the entire BA forum accountable for the actions of a few idiots over there. I enjoy your input over at the "dark side" and I try to help folks whenever I can.
    Post 41...
    Quote Originally Posted by next_n00b View Post
    "Interesting. So Blender forum is full of angry elves? Everyone who hates ex software goes to Blender A den of angry elves."

    And me...

    "Unfortunately it seems so, but Ivé not been that active for a longer period to judge that properly"

    And I never said all forum members are such people of bad tone, itīs just some of ..but too many already that Ivé come across so far..but so far itīs not been good for my experience over there,
    but the time spent there is as I say..too short to generalize for sure.
    I agree with that I can not judge it for certain to be so, and for the other lw users who need that forum too and just about to go there, well they have to decide for themself.

    Others like Ztreem and Richard Culver have tried to help me out a lot there, especially Ztreem has been helpful with stalking me as soon as I ask how to do something similar as I would do in Lightwave.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by safetyman View Post
    No offense, but I think you are making generalizations about the entire Blender Artists forum, when it's just a few bitter souls who have made inappropriate comments directed your way. I personally have no issue discussing LW on the BA forum, since I've used it for many many years and have great memories with it. Please just don't hold the entire BA forum accountable for the actions of a few idiots over there. I enjoy your input over at the "dark side" and I try to help folks whenever I can.
    Don't worry. Nobody actually thinks that the entire Blender community behaves badly. My comment about angry elves was meant to be more like a provocation/joke. But in some sense I think it suits Blender. If I get angry on NewTek, where can I go??? Blender offcourse Because of Blender people can get angry at less cost. You just imagine become angry 20 years ago
    Last edited by next_n00b; 05-05-2020 at 07:06 AM.

  5. #50
    World's Tallest Dwarf safetyman's Avatar
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    No worries, mates. Overall, I've not encountered negative comments here (where I've lurked for a lot of years) or over at BA and I hope that the opinions you may have about the BA forum aren't leaning toward the negative either.

    Back on topic, I hope that any LW user who decides to move on to other tools (i.e., not upgrade) continues to frequent these forums for helpful advice with their 3D career. I don't post much here anymore, but I still visit occasionally in the hopes that LW can continue to improve.

  6. #51
    Not so newbie member lardbros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safetyman View Post
    No worries, mates. Overall, I've not encountered negative comments here (where I've lurked for a lot of years) or over at BA and I hope that the opinions you may have about the BA forum aren't leaning toward the negative either.

    Back on topic, I hope that any LW user who decides to move on to other tools (i.e., not upgrade) continues to frequent these forums for helpful advice with their 3D career. I don't post much here anymore, but I still visit occasionally in the hopes that LW can continue to improve.
    I think there are a lot of LightWave users who keep checking back with watery eyes, just to see if their 'first-love' has blossomed any further.

    To be honest, I think this is one of LightWave's strengths, an army of ex-users who don't need much of an excuse to come back Obviously, the numbers dwindle every year as most of us are older than the Blender users of today
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  7. #52
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Blender, LightWave, Maya, Houdini, all just tools to reach an end goal. You decide what that goal is and what you believe are the best tools to achieve that goal.

    Blender is a powerful tool no doubt, the more you dive in the more that becomes apparent. If it suits your needs then use it, if you are a hobbyist or on a limited budget then use it, if you new to 3d then absolutely use it, its free after all so why not.

    The only problem i have with some, abet, a small amount of Blender users is that Blender is not going to take over the 3d world, no matter how much you might wish it, because its biggest selling point "its free" is not relevant to most of the big effects houses.

    They have a lot of time, money and educational investment in their pipelines, training and education are a long process and not something that is going to turn around over night. That's not saying that they don't use Blender or have not in the past, its saying that free is not the overriding consideration,
    they don't pay for their tools, the end client does.

    Now will that change in the future, in the short term No, in the medium term, Unlikely but possible, in the long term well anything is possible. Pipelines change, so do costs and requirements as well.

    If you make 3d models it matters very little how you produce them as long as you can deliver in the format and specs the client wants. They will always be able to bring it into their pipeline and integrate it will whatever software they use.

    Also don't forget Blender has been around almost as long as LightWave has, so its not the new kid on the block.
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  8. #53
    World's Tallest Dwarf safetyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Blender, LightWave, Maya, Houdini, all just tools to reach an end goal. You decide what that goal is and what you believe are the best tools to achieve that goal.

    Blender is a powerful tool no doubt, the more you dive in the more that becomes apparent. If it suits your needs then use it, if you are a hobbyist or on a limited budget then use it, if you new to 3d then absolutely use it, its free after all so why not.

    The only problem i have with some, abet, a small amount of Blender users is that Blender is not going to take over the 3d world, no matter how much you might wish it, because its biggest selling point "its free" is not relevant to most of the big effects houses.

    They have a lot of time, money and educational investment in their pipelines, training and education are a long process and not something that is going to turn around over night. That's not saying that they don't use Blender or have not in the past, its saying that free is not the overriding consideration,
    they don't pay for their tools, the end client does.

    Now will that change in the future, in the short term No, in the medium term, Unlikely but possible, in the long term well anything is possible. Pipelines change, so do costs and requirements as well.

    If you make 3d models it matters very little how you produce them as long as you can deliver in the format and specs the client wants. They will always be able to bring it into their pipeline and integrate it will whatever software they use.

    Also don't forget Blender has been around almost as long as LightWave has, so its not the new kid on the block.
    There may be some merit to what you're saying, but no one can predict the future. My feeling is that Blender has gotten the attention of the "big boys" and maybe there's some nervousness going on in the industry. I say that because I did an interview a while back with Autodesk wherein they asked me a ton of questions about Blender; what I liked/disliked about it, why I felt it was my goto, where it was going, etc. They gave me a nice monetary gift for my trouble and from what I've heard, they did this with several other Blender users as well. I doubt they would spend 90 minutes with me & others and pay us if they weren't slightly concerned or maybe intrigued by what the Blender Foundation was doing. Market research is important, as well as market intelligence.

  9. #54
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safetyman View Post
    There may be some merit to what you're saying, but no one can predict the future. My feeling is that Blender has gotten the attention of the "big boys" and maybe there's some nervousness going on in the industry. I say that because I did an interview a while back with Autodesk wherein they asked me a ton of questions about Blender; what I liked/disliked about it, why I felt it was my goto, where it was going, etc. They gave me a nice monetary gift for my trouble and from what I've heard, they did this with several other Blender users as well. I doubt they would spend 90 minutes with me & others and pay us if they weren't slightly concerned or maybe intrigued by what the Blender Foundation was doing. Market research is important, as well as market intelligence.
    Thatīs the way they need to do it, know your enemy.

    I recall ...a survey here I think by the newtek staff, and they also commented on it..Newtek staff saying they were surprised so many users also using "B"
    And that respons made me a little baffled... as if they didnīt know which environment is out there in the 3D world.

  10. #55
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by safetyman View Post
    There may be some merit to what you're saying, but no one can predict the future. My feeling is that Blender has gotten the attention of the "big boys" and maybe there's some nervousness going on in the industry. I say that because I did an interview a while back with Autodesk wherein they asked me a ton of questions about Blender; what I liked/disliked about it, why I felt it was my goto, where it was going, etc. They gave me a nice monetary gift for my trouble and from what I've heard, they did this with several other Blender users as well. I doubt they would spend 90 minutes with me & others and pay us if they weren't slightly concerned or maybe intrigued by what the Blender Foundation was doing. Market research is important, as well as market intelligence.
    Of course they would be interested in any competition and what it is doing, especially as Autodesk can do nothing to buy out Blender Foundation. So their only other tack is to compete, they cant compete on price obviously, so they only way to do that is to keep ahead. That's why Autodesk were right in their strategy years ago and to get Maya and Max in as many educational institutes as possible.

    I think this was also because of the backlash about pricing and maintenance costs a couple of years ago and many saying enough is enough. I suspect many of those were people using the software in small studios or indeed individuals or hobbyists. Big studios get special pricing and as i have said have so much more invested in software engineers and designers. Most of the big boys use versions of Maya, Houdini and such that are highly shall we stay stylized for their needs and not the off the shelf package a user would have or small studio.

    Blender will lead to a change in the industry, indeed i suspect it already does, but this will be in pricing, licensing, availability and tools. I don't see in the short term much change in price, indeed that is born out by the facts at present, now maybe in the future if they lose a lot more market share this will change, im not sure price will change but tack may well change, longer term locked in pricing, with longer contracts, im sure Autodesk will be ok as long as the big effects house continue to use their products. If i were Autodesk i would be more concerned about Houdini than the likes of Blender.

    Market research, intelligence and influence are all important factors and should not be dismissed, price is less important depending on who you are, individuals and small studios on a budget place a higher stake on costs than i suspect the bigger studios do.

    As we have both said who can predict the future and the bigger the foothold Blender has in it, it can only be the better for consumers.
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  11. #56
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Of course they would be interested in any competition and what it is doing, especially as Autodesk can do nothing to buy out Blender Foundation. So their only other tack is to compete, they cant compete on price obviously, so they only way to do that is to keep ahead. That's why Autodesk were right in their strategy years ago and to get Maya and Max in as many educational institutes as possible.

    I think this was also because of the backlash about pricing and maintenance costs a couple of years ago and many saying enough is enough. I suspect many of those were people using the software in small studios or indeed individuals or hobbyists. Big studios get special pricing and as i have said have so much more invested in software engineers and designers. Most of the big boys use versions of Maya, Houdini and such that are highly shall we stay stylized for their needs and not the off the shelf package a user would have or small studio.

    Blender will lead to a change in the industry, indeed i suspect it already does, but this will be in pricing, licensing, availability and tools. I don't see in the short term much change in price, indeed that is born out by the facts at present, now maybe in the future if they lose a lot more market share this will change, im not sure price will change but tack may well change, longer term locked in pricing, with longer contracts, im sure Autodesk will be ok as long as the big effects house continue to use their products. If i were Autodesk i would be more concerned about Houdini than the likes of Blender.

    Market research, intelligence and influence are all important factors and should not be dismissed, price is less important depending on who you are, individuals and small studios on a budget place a higher stake on costs than i suspect the bigger studios do.

    As we have both said who can predict the future and the bigger the foothold Blender has in it, it can only be the better for consumers.
    B..is a virus, the amount of users attracted to it, yields more vids, more content, more ads, more devs etc.
    Can be tedious to set prescriptions on certain B channels so to speak inbox gets full each day of new vids..which isnīt something I can say for LW vids.

    So come on erikals..you got to do more

  12. #57
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    As the blender hordes with their flashy tutorials and bones that are bendy sweep across the 3d landscape burning the old kingdoms to the ground and leaving naught but ash and salted earth in their wake, we, the chosen few, holders of the arcane wisdom of the lightwave, who shun the undo of the weak and spin the quad destructively shall never be conquered.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    As the blender hordes with their flashy tutorials and bones that are bendy sweep across the 3d landscape burning the old kingdoms to the ground and leaving naught but ash and salted earth in their wake, we, the chosen few, holders of the arcane wisdom of the lightwave, who shun the undo of the weak and spin the quad destructively shall never be conquered.
    There's a tear in my eye..

  14. #59

    So come on erikals..you got to do more 
    yes, currently only 1600...


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  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by hypersuperduper View Post
    As the blender hordes with their flashy tutorials and bones that are bendy sweep across the 3d landscape burning the old kingdoms to the ground and leaving naught but ash and salted earth in their wake, we, the chosen few, holders of the arcane wisdom of the lightwave, who shun the undo of the weak and spin the quad destructively shall never be conquered.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post
    There's a tear in my eye..
    These brought a Great ending to my day. Thank you for the guffaw.
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