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Thread: LW 2020 - Render

  1. #1

    LW 2020 - Render

    Okay I must admit after seeing the announcement and reading through the updates on the LW 2020 website I was somewhat disappointed, but there seems to be more here than meets the eye. I went through the manual of all the new stuff - stepped through each section - wow! A lot to take in. All kinds of stuff has been added and it looks like a few things put in for future advancements as well. But more to my point of this thread - I do interior shots, so I need an easy to use rendering engine and material creation system and with the release of LW2018 I think we got that IMO and my work has improved immensely from it. The only real downer would be the speed of the new renderer that was added in 2018 and 2019. While material creation and scene setup is fast and easy, rendering has been rather slow to say the least. But with the release of 2020 I have seen a vast improvement in that area. Plus initial tests have shown to be of better quality as well. Win win.

    I'd like to share an example of what I mean by speed improvements. A month ago I created this bedroom scene and loved how it turned out. So I'd thought I'd load it up and test in it LW2020 as well as load it into 2019 and check it there too. In order to make things completely fair I had to make several changes to both the 2019 scene and the 2020 scene once loaded.

    First - when using 2020 for this scene I had to add an Environment Light to get my backdrop to illuminate through the window. This is because 2020 no longer has Raytracing + Backdrop as a Reflections Option in the Surface Panel as well as Backdrops just requiring an Environment Light to show up period. Second - there is a bug in 2020 where Portal lights don't work, so I unchecked that. Third - I went into the 2019 version and changed that window light from a Portal to a normal light. Those changes made both 2019 and 2020 scenes as close as possible to identical. Now in regards to the changes to to GI system in 2020 - I changed nothing, I left everything as they came in when the 2019 scene loaded into 2020. The scene which was create in 2019 loaded into 2020 with Irradiance Cache as the GI Type - I did not touch the settings.

    I set aside some time to read the new LW2020 docs and rendered the scene in each version of LW one at a time.

    The results were very interesting and I can happily say there is a big render speed increase in 2020!
    Also there is virtually no splotching or light leaking - especially noticeable around the window panes etc..
    I also think the glass is somewhat richer - but again I tweaked absolutely nothing.

    System Info
    Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8086K CPU @ 4.00GHz, 6 Cores, 12 Logical Processors
    Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 32.0 GB
    Microsoft Windows 10 Home - Version 10.0.18362 Build 18362

    I've attached the results of the two renderers as well as the settings for the GI that was use with each version of LW.
    I've also added full resolution versions of each raw render right out of the LW so you can compare the difference for yourself.
    I've also included the final that I completed last month.

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  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Right here
    Great renders, thanks for the detailed info!

  3. #3
    Very nice comparison. The GI in the 2020 render is much better and more defined in the small details and crevices at a much lower render time. If this isn't proof that the 2020 render engine is much improved and better than 2019 I don't know what is!
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Oxford, UK
    Nice looking images. I have not upgraded yet. Given the render engine changes, does anyone know if the RebelHill training is still valid for LW2020 ?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    Nice looking images. I have not upgraded yet. Given the render engine changes, does anyone know if the RebelHill training is still valid for LW2020 ?
    I think much of it is still valid for surfacing, samples etc but there are definitely some changes in the way the GI engine and the environment light work that I'm still trying to wrap my head around to understand so I can get the most out of them. It would be nice if he was able to do a small update to his training just to highlight the changes in 2020 even if he charged a small fee for it.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

  6. #6
    Curmudgeon in Training Ma3rk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Near Beaverton, OR
    Thanks Tim. Nice & concise.
    I suspect I'll get 2020 in a few weeks.
    Earth can't be flat otherwise cats would have pushed everything off the edge!

    The Big Apexx System:
    AMD RYZEN THREADRIPPER 2990WX Processor (3.00GHz)
    2x NVIDIA Quadro RTX 4000 8GB 32 Core

  7. #7
    Hi Tim, I was wondering if you have time to run through these renders sometime again and look at what your memory usage is at towards the end of each one. All versions of LW 2019 seems to have an awfully bad memory leak rendering interiors with those kind of GI settings which causes the memory usage to climb at a steady rate and in some cases when it's all used up causes Lightwave to crash never completing the render. Have you experienced this in LW 2019? In 2020 you will likely see a very small memory spike at the start which will stay about the same throughout the render. Also 2018 should render the same scenes just fine with no memory leak.
    Last edited by Nicolas Jordan; 06-28-2020 at 01:23 PM.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

  8. #8
    I can't say it was a memory leak, but I have had scenes crash during the rendering process with 2019. This particular scene crashes 2019.
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    I was only able to render it in 2018 (2020 was not out at the time)

    I wanted to do a speed comparison with this scene as well but had forgotten that it didn't work in 2019, so I wasn't able to get any time result. It rendered fine in 2020, but at half the original resolution.

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    Edit: So I just tried this scene again in 2019 and it crashed just like in the above video and the memory available is 15.2GB. Hardly seems like a memory issue. It's still rendering but the crash reporter has popped up.

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    One might think there is something wrong with the wall as that render tile seems to be stuck. However, in the video it's a different tile that is stuck.

  9. #9
    The issues you are having also suggest there is likely something about the scene the 2019 engine can't compute or doesn't like. There must be some bugs that were introduced in the initial 2019 version of the render engine that caused some of these issues. I did more testing today and I did manage to find 1 of my interior scenes that did not have the memory leak in 2019 that I have had with other scenes but can't pin point why it's happening. Oh well, since 2019 is pretty much unusable for me when it comes to rendering interiors unless i use Brute Force I hoping the 2020 render engine will soon be bug free enough to use in production. I recently reported some significant bugs with the 2020 engine so I'm waiting for the next build to get released.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

  10. #10
    More info on the above scene with LW2020.0.1. I rendered it yesterday at full res (3072 x 2048) with Brute Force only. (The 2019 scene was Monte Carlo only) The good news is that it rendered and didn't crash, the bad news in most peoples eyes is that it took 4hrs and 45min. With that being the case I thought I'd try the new Irradiance Cache, figuring that should speed things up a bit. Well I pulled the plug after 9hrs and 34mins @ 13% finished. Honestly I can live with a 4hr render, what I can't take is a render that gets half done and then crashes. To me, if a render takes more than 1hr there is no difference between 1 and 6hrs as I render during lunch and at night.


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