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Thread: Time to retire Lightwave 3D from my toolkit.

  1. #76
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    vncnt, thank you so much for looking into this issue. I've been watching the development of Legato Sliders here daily and am looking forward to trying trying it out shortly. Erikals, thanks for testing these tools and posting the videos.

    Please keep up the great work guys!

  2. #77

    Happy to help out!  

    note; also check Vincent's other plugin "Legato".
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    no, its great. A user has highlighted an issue and that issue is getting addressed, for the benefit of all users.
    what it does show (and many think) is that this stuff can be fixed pretty quickly with some motivation and end user feedback. So, why is NT not doing this with LW development and not able to deliver this after 16 years?! Which just comes back to why Paul and others are over it and leaving.
    Those that are still here are very lucky and appreciative of Vncnt coming to the rescue and making something for us but in my mind, NT should look at this and think about what it implies. Thanks on behalf of all LW users.
    I found the title implying a bit too much negativity especially when it got bumped day after day. But you are kinda right it highlights some symptoms, thats for sure.
    But maybe something to consider: I highly doubt that management lets the developers decide at will what issues they wish to address especially when they will have to pay for it. And given the fact that the team seems to be rather small for a good number of years now (to me it seems that way at least) they might really have had other priorities on their to-do-list. And also having at least some slider alternatives from 3rd party devs around might also have to let the issues seem not as urgent - that is by no means meant as an excuse for shortcommings in the software, just a thought...

    The good thing here is: it turned something apparantly rather negative into something positive, it demonstrates what is possible with the tools that are there. Thatīs thanks to some spirited folks here on the forums.
    I think itīs great with what you guys, first and foremost Vincent, come up here. Kudos to you Erikals, too, of course! :-)
    A bit sad, though, that it needed some long time member of the community to leave to actually get it started. But I really would not blame the actual development team for that. It goes clearly out to the general management, those who decide who gets to do what for whatever reason it might be.

    BTW, did anyone notice that NT marketing not even found it worth to have at least one line on Twitter about the release of 2020? The community startpage still shows the post from January about the 2019.1.5 patch. Or is it just hidden from me because I have no Twitter account?

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by fishhead View Post
    A bit sad, though, that it needed some long time member of the community to leave to actually get it started.
    I got a sneaky feeling Paul won't be gone long once he looks into the alternatives.
    Tim Parsons

  5. #80
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    when you work with awesome, dedicated and open minded programmers, you know that it is very easy for LW to be brilliant, if there was the desire and motivation combined with a decent roadmap, planning and a good user feedback loop.

  6. #81
    Founding member raymondtrace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    ...So, why is NT not doing this with LW development and not able to deliver this after 16 years?!...
    Didn't they already deliver this as Lscript, as used by Vincent now, and Dan 10+ years ago? These Lscript solutions were crafted in a few days and both Dan and Vincent have asked for further input to refine. There are people trying to have a conversation with Paul over the years and he didn't really want to discuss it. This seems like it has always been just a rant. Shooting a half hour video to communicate a 2 minute message ...and then taking even more time to edit and add inserts affirms this suspicion. But it's fair. The internet is a great medium for complaints and soapboxing. The creators, builders, programmers, artists and teachers that remain here in this forum are appreciated.
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  7. #82
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    I got a sneaky feeling Paul won't be gone long once he looks into the alternatives.
    Try and convince all those that did a crossover to another well know software, including former lw devs, they cant ever consdider going back....personally I am not at that stage yet though.
    If you are registered and active in those forums..you will get an idea on whatīs it like to discuss lightwave over there.

    itīs hard ..I like to use these two software together to complement, but it all ends up in..never going to use that, or we would never leave this..and what could L..possible offer etc..and I am stubbornly trying
    to describe some workflows or tools or rendering situations where I need to showcase Lightwave as complementary.

  8. #83

    the production speed combined with quality for a given project should be proof, or at least a strong guideline to what that can be achieved in the different applications.

    most of the negative guys over there, and here, haven't posted as much as a model / render of a nail.

    should i worry about such people?... nope!

    does it annoy me?... yep!
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  9. #84
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    RE-Original Video

    The real issue is poor workflow and basic lack of understanding...

    you would never fully animate using just sliders! sluggish, lazy and problematic.
    could sliders be better in LW 100% yes, could they have been reworked and better developed 100% yes

    instead of complaining for apparently 16 years, would you have been better learning how to write a simple script that
    would have benefited your workflow, 100% yes.

    morph mixer could have been utilized the problem here isn't specifically sliders, it's your poor workflow that needs addressed.

    in Houdini all you need to do is drag any property onto the viewport and it becomes a slider /ui element ..easy
    in blender you need to setup drivers and custom properties, clunky and again you would just use shape keys which is the equivalent of morph mixer.

    so you will see each software has it's tradeoffs.

    as for nodes, that's not a LW things that's your lack of understanding, you will not get away from nodes, if you don't overcome that obstastable by yourself nobody can help you there.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Try and convince all those that did a crossover to another well know software, including former lw devs, they cant ever consdider going back.
    I'm basing my comment on Paul and not necessarily others. Why do I think he might be back? Because it appears he's the type of artist that isn't being held back by the software. Where is he going to find a simpler way to surface then LW's layer system? He rants about nodes, but that's a learning issue and lack of knowledge of how he can still do it the old way if he wants to. Looks like he's just not interested in learning it. And the slider thing - well he's got a point, but there are other ways there too. Sure LW has its issues, but if a user struggles with it they'll probably struggle elsewhere too.
    Tim Parsons

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    I'm basing my comment on Paul and not necessarily others. Why do I think he might be back? Because it appears he's the type of artist that isn't being held back by the software. Where is he going to find a simpler way to surface then LW's layer system? He rants about nodes, but that's a learning issue and lack of knowledge of how he can still do it the old way if he wants to. Looks like he's just not interested in learning it. And the slider thing - well he's got a point, but there are other ways there too. Sure LW has its issues, but if a user struggles with it they'll probably struggle elsewhere too.
    I agree, if nodes & sliders make an artist want to stop using Lightwave things won't be much easier with any other software. Every software has issues and quirks to deal with. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    the production speed combined with quality for a given project should be proof, or at least a strong guideline to what that can be achieved in the different applications.

    most of the negative guys over there, and here, haven't posted as much as a model / render of a nail.

    should i worry about such people?... nope!

    does it annoy me?... yep!
    prolly nda

  13. #88
    Registered User tyrot's Avatar
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    erikals .. that comment triggered me a bit too... did you have any project under NDA ? like almost financially life ending pages that you gotta sign before even looking at DWGs?

  14. #89
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Parsons View Post
    I'm basing my comment on Paul and not necessarily others. Why do I think he might be back? Because it appears he's the type of artist that isn't being held back by the software. Where is he going to find a simpler way to surface then LW's layer system? He rants about nodes, but that's a learning issue and lack of knowledge of how he can still do it the old way if he wants to. Looks like he's just not interested in learning it. And the slider thing - well he's got a point, but there are other ways there too. Sure LW has its issues, but if a user struggles with it they'll probably struggle elsewhere too.
    True perhaps.

    for me, I get frustrated with simple things like having to disconnect a node and place a node in between the former, then plug the first node to the middle node, then the middle node to the output node, in a certain other software, I simply just drag the node on top of the connection..Done, it reroutes itself

    As well as many other functional node stuff, the only complaint perhaps is the difference in noise nodes, where in Lightwave (except for the new wonky procedural node) I can simply invert a fractal with a checkbox, which I canīt in the other software, I need node wrangler to adapt to that.

    But basicly..this approach of not being able to connect a new node inbetween two nodes is sort of killing me in lightwave.
    So while you do not get away from nodal approach, some software simply makes it easier, as well as also connecting images up automaticly when adding to a color channel, which lightwave canīt, unless you start with a standard material and convert it..but then it will also only convert with a color layer image node, not the image node.

    And keymapping for moving around is better in my other software, and also...it doesnīt stop itīs much more zoomable than lightwaves ..which stops at a too early stage.
    This was with my favourit other software, then you got the master node software know for itīs fantastic vfx cababilitis, it is also much better at dealing with nodes...once you learn the workflow that is.

  15. #90

    prolly nda
    not really. i know the state of several of them, and no, not nda.
    good remark, but no.
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