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Thread: Lightwave 2020

  1. #601
    www.Digitawn.co.uk rustythe1's Avatar
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    maybe read the forum rules? the b word is not a third party tool, and you do mention it.... a lot. perhaps it would be better in the newtek forums general discussions as the rules do say all other forums should be for their respective products or direct third parties, not competing software.
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  2. #602
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustythe1 View Post
    maybe read the forum rules? the b word is not a third party tool, and you do mention it.... a lot. perhaps it would be better in the newtek forums general discussions as the rules do say all other forums should be for their respective products or direct third parties, not competing software.
    Yes..sure, Any response postings about "B" or "H" I may have done here in the lw community or the other non general discussions sections ..would be in the wrong sections agreed, my fault if that has happened too often.
    General Discussion is where any talk about "b" or "H" should belong.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Cageman View Post
    I'm one of those that do not want LW to become a GPU renderengine. However, I want LWs renderengine to become GPU accelerated.

    Two very different things.

    If you all take a moment an look around... CPUs had a fairly long time of stagnation. GPU renderengines came about.... with a fair share of limitations to boot, but a single GPU would be 8 times faster than a CPU. Fast forward...

    2020, AMD have, in my opinion, made a paradigm shift in CPU capabilites. And, compared to Intel, made them extremely lowcost. If AMD continues this thread of developement, LightWave or any other CPU-based renderengine will, slowly but certanly, remove the need of a GPU based renderengine.

    CPU rendering will, if AMD keeps up their work, become a fight between Realtime rendering and Offline rendering. This is where I see GPU render engines (Octane and Redshift with their share set of limitations) die. Because CPUs will be as fast as GPUs for Offline rendering.... initially at a much higher cost, but, without limitations... if AMD keep things up, the only thing GPUs will do better are realtime rendering.

    GPU rendering will be "demoted" to realtime tasks and CPU rendering will continue as usual, but way faster than before.

    I'm not sure if I agree with this. All the component for a CPU (ram, motherboard, cooling, additional software) node makes it very expensive, while you only need to slot in a GPU into PCI-E. Also, OOC tech is now ready for GPU that allows access to larger scenes. GPU technology had a lot of limitations in the beginning, but all the time invest in overcoming those limitations (both software and hardware) is coming to fruition. We also now have NVlink to pool and expand Vram and AMD GPU have something similar in the new MacPro with their memory bridge technology. RTX 3080Ti will supposedly have a huge jump in performance when released in October. While AMD CPU is improving, Nvidia GPUs are also improving too at a lower cost.

    It's simply more efficient to run ray-traced calculation on the GPU, there's no getting around that.
    Last edited by thomascheng; 05-04-2020 at 08:32 AM.

  4. #604
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomascheng View Post
    I'm not sure if I agree with this. All the component for a CPU (ram, motherboard, colling, additional software) node makes it very expensive, while you only need to slot in a GPU into PCIE. Also, OOC tech is now ready for gpu that allows access to larger scenes. GPU technology had a lot of limitation in the beginning, but all the time invest in overcoming those limitation (both software and hardware) is coming to fruition. We also now have NVlink to pool and expand Vram, AMD GPU have something similar on the new MacPro with their memory bridge technology. RTX 3080Ti will supposedly have a huge jump in performance when released in October. While AMD CPU are improving, Nvidia GPUs are also improving too at a lower cost.
    Personally I really do not want to wait for those to show up or invest in it later..when I already purchased my stuff some time ago, GPU rendering would have boosted my render times with my current hardware ..A lot... without the need of buying new hardware.
    But of course, for "Serious studios" they can get it ..and perhaps wait for the latest stuff.

  5. #605
    Plays with fire sadkkf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    for this case and all the others when you need to select things like every other poly and also being able to extrude along normals (multishift in lightwave) itīs bad.
    And not just chamfer, I could pick these edges and try and edge bevel..it doesnīt work either, so itīs kind of impossible to perform this action in lightwave..which used to work.
    The option you have is to instead select every other poly for something similar, and nth pattern doesnīt work that way on selected edge ring loops like that, I think the every other selection plugin is a bit weird to use as well with a certain order.

    In blender I just select the same way as in lightwave, first a loop and the select ring, then ctrl bevel to bevel the edges, then just mouse click to drop it, then just click on faces icon instead and it will automaticly select those recent beveled edges, then extrude along normals..it just works so nicely...and as said, it used to work in Lightwave..not sure why they had to change that.




    Attachment 147555
    Something like ZBrush's radial symmetry could do this very easily, but that would, of course, mean give modeler some attention.
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  6. #606
    Modeller needs to be rewritten so it isn't so difficult to update.

  7. #607
    Super Member JohnMarchant's Avatar
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    It just needs incorporating into Layout and have one software to update. I do appreciate often that they are separate, but i think overall they need integrating, not least of all because the Hub still does not work often.
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  8. #608
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadkkf View Post
    Something like ZBrush's radial symmetry could do this very easily, but that would, of course, mean give modeler some attention.
    Do you mean cloning radial with symmetry? in such case no..thatīs not what is needed here, itīs about selection conversion, but if you ment it can do that in Z with symmetry selection..fine.

    Selection from a ring multilooped edge selection can in "b" be converted to polyselections while standing in edgemode..and then ctrl click on face mode, that can not be done today in modeler, we need better selection methods for that.

    I need to record what I mean on a youtube vid to demonstrate the issues, but I need to post that within my own page I think, since I kind of promised to stay away from too much of this talk when another software is involved.
    or possibly deal with it in the general sections.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    It just needs incorporating into Layout and have one software to update. I do appreciate often that they are separate, but i think overall they need integrating, not least of all because the Hub still does not work often.
    No..not for this case, what you are talking about is additional wishes beyond this magnitude of requirements.(whishes I am all for anyway)


    I feel like al pacino in the last godfather movie, just when I though I was out, they drag me in again...I said I was going to reduce time in these forums, and today Ivé spent too much time again..blah

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Do you mean cloning radial with symmetry? in such case no..thatīs not what is needed here, itīs about selection conversion, but if you ment it can do that in Z with symmetry selection..fine.

    Selection from a ring multilooped edge selection can in "b" be converted to polyselections while standing in edgemode..and then ctrl click on face mode, that can not be done today in modeler, we need better selection methods for that.

    I need to record what I mean on a youtube vid to demonstrate the issues, but I need to post that within my own page I think, since I kind of promised to stay away from too much of this talk when another software is involved.
    or possibly deal with it in the general sections.
    I agree, you should do a youtube video; it would certainly help visualize what you are describing.

    The way you describe it, it's like you are saying you want to loop select edges and then switch to connected polys while keeping the edges selected... which sounds like Select Connected... which you can do in Modeler.

    Not sure what you meant about ctrl click on face mode or what behavior you want from that.

    So yes, if that isn't what you are referring to, I must not be understanding what you are describing.

  10. #610
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    Render speed is Brilliant, Denoiser makes a huge difference.
    Thanks Newtek. :-)

  11. #611
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    I agree, you should do a youtube video; it would certainly help visualize what you are describing.

    The way you describe it, it's like you are saying you want to loop select edges and then switch to connected polys while keeping the edges selected... which sounds like Select Connected... which you can do in Modeler.

    Not sure what you meant about ctrl click on face mode or what behavior you want from that.

    So yes, if that isn't what you are referring to, I must not be understanding what you are describing.
    create a toroid in lightwave , in edge mode..select one edge loop running around the radius of the whol torus, then go to select nth and set it so you have every other selected and run it.
    That will give you every other edge selected from that edgeloop, and what you do next..all this is the same in software "b" you select ring, that will get you these band selections as can be seen in my image, but not fully, it will be selected rings in edge mode, now.. try and convert those selections so it becomes a poly selection, when you convert it..it doesn make a poly selection, it used to do that..it just drops all the selections since it doesnīt regognize any non closed edges around a poly.

    when I am about to convert this kind of ring selection in software B, I stay in edge mode, then click on the icon for face mode but also with ctrl hold, that will extend this ring selection to be a poly selection

    In this software ..nth pattern is called checker deselect.

    Almost exacly like in this gif, but I think the one who did this also used yet another loop in between, I do not have to do that, just make sure I stand in edgemode..then hold down ctrl and click on face mode (this is the same as if I were to click on poly selection mode in lightwave ) but this software has the same icons as modo for that.

    The difference in this gif though, he or she isnīt selecting ring in the same order I think, but onced expanded from edge ring or switched..it is selecting the every othe bands of polygons as polygons and not edges..thus easy to right click and extrude along normal...which in lightwave would be multishift or smooth shift, lightwave can not switch or maintain a polyselection from edge rings like that..if you try to convert selection.

    The only solution to get a similar selection would probably ..just maybe use that every other plugin instead of nth pattern if you run it on the whole mesh , but I have found it to be hard to use.

    So no...this functionality doesnīt work in Lightwave anymore.


  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    ... when I am about to convert this kind of ring selection in software B, I stay in edge mode, then click on the icon for face mode but also with ctrl hold, that will extend this ring selection to be a poly selection...
    Michael, simple things like these work in any other 3D software (not just 'b' ) since ages, except LightWave (and specially Modeler).

    The developers and management of NewTek don't listen anyway. You can submit a feature request but writing here about it is for no use in my opinion.

    I know I compare LW to other software too but to be honest, it's pointless bcause it will never be anywhere close to catch up.

    There are very few parts and functions in LW that still add value to other tools but that's just about it. The rest 99% of the feature set is years behind other implementations. The 'b' software too in some areas but not to that extend - and it's catching up with a good pace.

    ... So my advise: Take LW for what it is and offers currently. If it's useful in some ways (and it certainly is), use it. Where it lacks or is inefficient, use something else.

  13. #613
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    Unfortunately LW gets worse in some areas with each release.

    Up until 2019 for example I was able to use LW in any machine, even on a laptop with (8th Gen i7) Intel UHD Graphics. Not supported anymore with 2020 and crashes with most basic tasks while older versions worked perfectly.

    Submitted bug. The support was quick but - well I'm not going into that - just saying, they didn't even look at the attached hardware or driver info.

    Conclusion is - if fixed as part of another known bug it might work, I should try it again when a fix is available.

    Well no biggie for me but in the grand schema it is not good for LW, limiting its use. Of course in most cases a discrete Nvidia or AMD chip is used for 3D but in some situations it's good when a software is versatile and runs in various environments. And really, LW is the only 3D app I use with this issue.

    Maybe someone can reproduce on a machine with integrated Intel graphics? Open Layout - create a Cube or Sphere (in Layout's Model tab) - Deselect it - Select it again - Crash.

    Hardware Dell XPS 13 - CPU: Core i7-8565U (quad-core), Graphics: Intel UHD Graphics 620, RAM: 16GB

    (works fine on a Dell XPS 15 with NVidia GPU)
    Last edited by Marander; 05-04-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  14. #614
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    I don't know if this was posted already.


  15. #615
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    Matt must have left or is on other NT products, unless he really let it slide
    Other NewTek products since over 3 years ago.
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