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Thread: Lightwave 2020

  1. #316
    ex-LightWave documentation BeeVee's Avatar
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    You should be able to download the 2020 content in your account?

    B
    Ben Vost
    LightWave 3D Docs wiki
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  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeVee View Post
    You should be able to download the 2020 content in your account?

    B
    Now I see it. Needed to refresh the page.
    Last edited by Airwaves; 04-24-2020 at 07:43 PM.

  3. #318
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    The trial license key is not working. It keeps going into discovery mode even after dragging in the Trial license key. Anybody else?

  4. #319
    FFX and 2020....

    Loading an FFX scene made in 2019 can cause the long time squashed bug of rendertime crashing....so I had to load from scene and setup the FFX again in 2020..

    I did some testing of surfaces to see the difference.

    The new AFC Hair is great, though does have some issues, which I havent worked on to see what causes it (you can see some dark splotches in the hair in the pic below).
    Principaled Hair renders too slow and doesnt get anywhere near the same quality at the same settings...


    My scene was setup with around 12000 fibers total
    Camera settings are 1 min 4 max samples, AA .01, threshold .1
    GI uses both primary and secondary as Interpolated (or whatever they call it now) with a 5mm range.
    Scene samples are Reflection:2, Refraction2, Subsurface 4
    Hair surface overrides the sampling at Reflection 16, Refraction 16

    AFC Hair had a preprocess of about 2min and render time of 13min
    Principaled had a preprocess of 4min and rendertime of 16min
    Standard Hair wouldnt even make it past preprocess, it got up to around 32000% (after walking away and coming back 40 min later), so I hit abort..nuff said there..lol

    Here are the results..

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2020hair-Comparison.jpg 
Views:	197 
Size:	942.1 KB 
ID:	147430
    Rob Depew
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  5. #320
    Registered User rdolishny's Avatar
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    I saw lots of typos too, in particular multiple spaces.
    Also, there are some new YouTube videos that were also offshored.... Antti Järvelä seems like a nice enough guy but I couldn't hit the 2x speed fast enough, and his English is very rough. I really didn't get a lot of value out of the GI video as an example. All we really need to know is a feature comparison, and are fireflies gone.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fkX_QROGXo

  6. #321
    Does anyone know why Interpolated/Irradiance cache settings were removed from the Object Properties > Global Illum Tab?

    We can only set the local GI on an object with Brute Force now. I would like the option to use Irradiance Cache GI locally on objects. I use both kinds of GI locally to optimize a scene on objects in a scene depending on the nature of the object. Maybe I will have to make a feature request.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  7. #322
    Banned OnlineRender's Avatar
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    Screw it, nothing to lose might as well push some buttons.



    Firstly don't expect any praise or a subtle pats on the back, you had over 14 months to engage with your market/community/artists and develop a product!

    you done neither, in fact you failed so hard it's not only embarrassing, it's outright insulting, just to emphasize and cement my point!
    hardcore user(s) what I consider guaranteed sales (fanboys for the lack of better term) are taking a huge step back and evaluating their choices.

    "do you blame them ?"

    So let's break this down so it's easier to digest and my words can't be misconstrued.

    you do realize that the vast majority who use LW in a professional manner has Octane, now I could speculate and in my opinion part of the reason was a certain influential ex member of your staff heavily promoted the product
    or the simple fact you made a complete arse of the 2018 render engine and users had no other choice but to evolve or perhaps GPU and final render quality of Octane is far superior.

    you do realize that LW 2015 user will not update because of the render engine, right?

    either way the latest update holds no value whatsoever especially if you use another render engine .

    New Global Illumination Render Engines " pointless, if you have Octane "
    New Shaders in FiberFX " have you ever used FFX, it's not even worth the f9 , it's horrible, bloated and not production ready after 10 years" , look at any other application and their grooming tools... that's why some of the best LW artists I know still produce horrible hair examples.

    New OpenVDB Production Tools, in terms of VDB its 10 miles off the pace, buggy and not production ready " notice a theme here" ...
    Tone Mapping... that's not a feature and already covered with db&w and pointless if you use Octane.

    Untethered, you are taking the piss now, 1 modeler update and you think getting a notification that your render has finished is a necessity ? ...

    I could push the dagger in further and highlight the fact FBX is still borked, the local action centre only works in certain cases "try rotation" and the improved scene editor is still hackit.

    So is this a dig at developers, yes! is this a dig at the managers NT / VIZ , DR Cross 100% this punch goes right down to the cleaning staff.

    what the hell are you playing at?

    you do realize peoples livelihood and income are influenced by your decisions ?

    so let's put everything to one side and concentrate on product delivery,which I would consider myself well versed in.

    The Website has spelling mistakes and horrible spaces in the text.

    you have no box art "again"

    you have no videos, sorry but the two videos by anitti are an absolute disgrace

    you have no real world example of how your new tools works.

    no artwork

    no help to the communities that support you

    there's a reason flay,spinquad, preset central, lightwiki died <insert the rest here> ... it's because of you!

    no help for 3rd party developers

    you had 14 months to sort yourself out and to consider this anything less than lackluster is shameful

    Ģ480 to upgrade if you missed 2019, are you mental!

    and your forums "F**CKED"

    give yourself a slap
    Last edited by OnlineRender; 04-24-2020 at 09:20 PM.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    [CENTER] New Shaders in FiberFX " have you ever used FFX, it's not even worth the f9 , it's horrible, bloated and not production ready after 10 years" , look at any other application and their grooming tools... that's why some of the best LW artists I know still produce horrible hair examples.
    This particular part of your comment just made my day. I don't get why some people love or even like FFX. To me itīs an unfinished tool, not ready for production. We are in 2020 and still can't make decent hair. Not even with a 3rd party plugin!

  9. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    [CENTER]

    New Global Illumination Render Engines " pointless, if you have Octane "
    I agree with this. This would definitely be a very pointless upgrade for anyone who uses and relies on Octane for rendering. For the rest of us that don't use Octane like myself I welcome any improvements to the native render engine since I chose to invest in CPU rather than GPU for rendering.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  10. #325
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlineRender View Post
    Screw it, nothing to lose might as well push some buttons.



    Firstly don't expect any praise or a subtle pats on the back, you had over 14 months to engage with your market/community/artists and develop a product!

    you done neither, in fact you failed so hard it's not only embarrassing, it's outright insulting, just to emphasize and cement my point!
    hardcore user(s) what I consider guaranteed sales (fanboys for the lack of better term) are taking a huge step back and evaluating their choices.

    "do you blame them ?"

    So let's break this down so it's easier to digest and my words can't be misconstrued.

    you do realize that the vast majority who use LW in a professional manner has Octane, now I could speculate and in my opinion part of the reason was a certain influential ex member of your staff heavily promoted the product
    or the simple fact you made a complete arse of the 2018 render engine and users had no other choice but to evolve or perhaps GPU and final render quality of Octane is far superior.

    you do realize that LW 2015 user will not update because of the render engine, right?

    either way the latest update holds no value whatsoever especially if you use another render engine .

    New Global Illumination Render Engines " pointless, if you have Octane "
    New Shaders in FiberFX " have you ever used FFX, it's not even worth the f9 , it's horrible, bloated and not production ready after 10 years" , look at any other application and their grooming tools... that's why some of the best LW artists I know still produce horrible hair examples.

    New OpenVDB Production Tools, in terms of VDB its 10 miles off the pace, buggy and not production ready " notice a theme here" ...
    Tone Mapping... that's not a feature and already covered with db&w and pointless if you use Octane.

    Untethered, you are taking the piss now, 1 modeler update and you think getting a notification that your render has finished is a necessity ? ...

    I could push the dagger in further and highlight the fact FBX is still borked, the local action centre only works in certain cases "try rotation" and the improved scene editor is still hackit.

    So is this a dig a developers, yes! is this a dig at the managers NT / VIZ , DR Cross 100% this punch goes right down to the cleaning staff.

    what the hell are you playing at?

    you do realize peoples livelihood and income are influenced by your decisions ?

    so let's put everything to one side and concentrate on product delivery,which I would consider myself well versed in.

    The Website has spelling mistakes and horrible spaces in the text.

    you have no box art "again"

    you have no videos, sorry but the two videos by anitti are an absolute disgrace

    you have no real world example of how your new tools works.

    no artwork

    no help to the communities that support you

    there's a reason flay,spinquad, preset central, lightwiki died <insert the rest here> ... it's because of you!

    no help for 3rd party developers

    you had 14 months to sort yourself out and to consider this anything less than lackluster is shameful

    Ģ480 to upgrade if you missed 2019, are you mental!

    and your forums "F**CKED"

    give yourself a slap
    Yeah - some valid points there for sure. But you know what? - A lot could be forgivable if they would just communicate! Tell us what their plan is. Tell us that most of the work in this release is under the hood so we can add this at a later date. Be honest and transparent about why maybe this release might be thin. I think users will support their efforts if they knew a little about their end game and what they may be looking into for the future. I agree, this a pretty thin release, about as bad as 10, but we need to know whats going on.

    However - if you've been stuck on v9, v10, v11, v2015 than this is a great upgrade!

  11. #326
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    Sorry but just to much for this upgrade. I just cant justify for what is being updated. I have paid every upgrade sense I purchased the full version 9. I think Its time to start looking for whats also available or start learning blender. For this upgrade price I can invest in a new render engine to work with blender. Or maybe check out what available. I will still play with my 2019 but for what this will cost I can sit back for a few years and see what lightwave will become and just pay full price and probably be better off financially. Its been a fun ride but its time to catch a new train.

  12. #327
    Super Member
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    You can see why I seldom am here. If you want to criticize it's one thing. But far too often it's some creating a ***** storm. It's why many of us rarely visit the forums anymore. If the product doesn't "work" for You then find one that does. But every release it's the same Damn thing, and it gets Old Big Time. "Believe what you want, just don't believe it here", for those with long diatribes.

  13. #328

  14. #329
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leandropedrouzo View Post
    This particular part of your comment just made my day. I don't get why some people love or even like FFX. To me itīs an unfinished tool, not ready for production. We are in 2020 and still can't make decent hair. Not even with a 3rd party plugin!
    I think itīs more about knowledge and the fact it is horribly slow to tweak with interactivity in VPR, Mauroccor does some very nice hair with it.
    Maybe the new shader is looking much better than the older one...for me I think blenders hairshaders is looking way better..and apart from that..I can both style comb faster and accurate and render the tweakings of materials much much faster with cycles....canīt say if itīs 5-6 times faster..feels at least like that, with the GPU, but also faster with CPU than LW cpu.
    Itīs got a melanin shading which is nice, and I can mix these hair shader pbr materials to use reflection And emission materials so you get nice sunlit backlit hair.

    But perhaps the new LW hair shader is a bit faster and better aliasing, but it needs not only to be seen in final render, One need to see the iteration render refinement within some seconds for it to be a decent hair rendering system..that gives that extra
    freedoom to tweak the hair without the long wait.

    Or just get octane.

  15. #330
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwanmtr View Post
    FFX and 2020....

    Loading an FFX scene made in 2019 can cause the long time squashed bug of rendertime crashing....so I had to load from scene and setup the FFX again in 2020..

    I did some testing of surfaces to see the difference.

    The new AFC Hair is great, though does have some issues, which I havent worked on to see what causes it (you can see some dark splotches in the hair in the pic below).
    Principaled Hair renders too slow and doesnt get anywhere near the same quality at the same settings...


    My scene was setup with around 12000 fibers total
    Camera settings are 1 min 4 max samples, AA .01, threshold .1
    GI uses both primary and secondary as Interpolated (or whatever they call it now) with a 5mm range.
    Scene samples are Reflection:2, Refraction2, Subsurface 4
    Hair surface overrides the sampling at Reflection 16, Refraction 16

    AFC Hair had a preprocess of about 2min and render time of 13min
    Principaled had a preprocess of 4min and rendertime of 16min
    Standard Hair wouldnt even make it past preprocess, it got up to around 32000% (after walking away and coming back 40 min later), so I hit abort..nuff said there..lol

    Here are the results..

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2020hair-Comparison.jpg 
Views:	197 
Size:	942.1 KB 
ID:	147430
    Considering you have a quite fast cpu to render with, those rendertimes are way too long, if I would have tried that on my machine..I am sure it would have been much longer rendertimes.
    Anyway..a slight speed improvement perhaps for the AFC shader.


    I wonder how fast you could render hair in ..you know what ..for free?

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