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Thread: Seriously NewTek... This is your best moment for LW2020

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    They did exactly that when 2018 came out; actually, it was an upgrade to 2018 from any previous version of Lightwave for what, $349 or something like that, if I'm remembering correctly.

    That purchase came with a reduced upgrade price on future upgrades from 2018 on.

    They ran that for quite a while after 2018 debuted. I want to say it ran from January to April or May of 2018 (I think), so any time in that four month period you could have upgraded from any previous version of Lightwave to 2018 for a reduced price.

    So lapsed LWers could have gone straight from 7.5 to 2018 for $349 during that period.

    At this point, they may think that users who were still interested would have taken advantage of that deal while it ran, and those who didn't really weren't interested.
    They could have another go. There's also an additional reason to upgrade now for many Mac users that didn't exist then - MacOSX Catalina.

    Catalina doesn't like the old Sentinel drivers, so people like me must either use older hardware or dump LW. It's not cost effective for me to upgrade at the standard price.

  2. #242
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    The world economy will go down drastically soon.

    I agree with others, now during the lockdown period it would have been a good time for release. People have time and still money to spend. That will change for the worse.

    NewTek has an <insert your bad word here> management, sales and marketing.

    Later that management might blame the pandemic for bad sales, lower revenue and use this for corresponding cut downs and other measures.

  3. #243
    Steam username: Carm3D Carm3D's Avatar
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    I suspect they missed their ideal window already.
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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marander View Post
    NewTek has an <insert your bad word here> management, sales and marketing.
    NewTek has an <working-in-mysterious-ways> management, sales and marketing.

  5. #245
    For every month that goes by without Lightwave 2020 my expectations for it increase a bit each month regarding features and production readiness and overall polish once it does get released. Anyone else feel the same?
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  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post
    They could have another go. There's also an additional reason to upgrade now for many Mac users that didn't exist then - MacOSX Catalina.

    Catalina doesn't like the old Sentinel drivers, so people like me must either use older hardware or dump LW. It's not cost effective for me to upgrade at the standard price.
    Certainly, they could have another go; I'm sure there are number crunchers that are figuring out whether that makes fiscal sense. I guess it really depends on what 2020 delivers.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lightwave hasn't used a dongle or the Sentinel drivers since version 11, correct?

  7. #247
    Registered User jimzombie's Avatar
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    I want to see the new goods. I've skipped on on the last several releases, waiting for some serious modeler love.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post
    Certainly, they could have another go; I'm sure there are number crunchers that are figuring out whether that makes fiscal sense. I guess it really depends on what 2020 delivers.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lightwave hasn't used a dongle or the Sentinel drivers since version 11, correct?
    I think that's so.

    For what I do it's been fine, but as a hobbyist user changing from my ancient history version is expensive, especially after tax in Europe. I have an old computer around, but it may just be easier to start using B*****r.

    I may be stuck in a LW time-warp but so is the company.

    For just about every company out there that I've bought software from there's been a mass-mailing referencing the coronavirus and offering some special deal or at the very least some form of best wishes and maybe some freebie. From Newtek (I am on their mailing list) nothing.

    BTW Newtek bods, I do hope you're all safe and well.

    I guess I'm just a little frustrated that maybe finally it's time as a hobbyist to say goodbye to LW. When I first decided to buy it (LW 4.0) you could find people using it, articles, training, everywhere, now it seems only to exist on this forum. Feels that way anyway.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    For every month that goes by without Lightwave 2020 my expectations for it increase a bit each month regarding features and production readiness and overall polish once it does get released. Anyone else feel the same?
    I feel that way... but I also try to check my optimism

    I'm still banking on GPU rendering as the premiere feature they are working on; I know that many have presented arguments about how difficult such an implementation would be, but I think that given a base engine to start from, while the task would still be difficult, it wouldn't present the same challenges as creating one from scratch would.

    But, I think any of the following are possible, in no particular order or combination:

    1. Fully implemented modifier stack
    2. Enhanced VDB tools to include presets
    3. GUI overhaul to include dockable panels
    4. Modeler / Layout combined into a single application
    5. GPU rendering


    But again... I'm tempering my expectations.

    Regardless, I will be upgrading at release.

  10. #250
    Andy Peterson
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    It’s requirements that are defined in RFPs, proposals, contracts and bid packs that shape my interest in LightWave. That’s what NT should focus on. If you think of LightWave more generally (as an authoring environment) opportunities present themselves:

    BIM - it’s huge. You won’t replace Revit and Glue. But even modest sized contractors lack an internal capability. Fold in what LWCad offers as basic functionality, and you could disrupt the dataset world. Currently, if you need a manufacturer’s product model, you’re limited to proprietary formats.

    Engineering and development - same thing. Add i/o support for STEP, SAT and IGES. Build a decent meshing engine. Now you’ve gracefully extended the options for an organization’s product life-cycle development toolset.

    WebGL - work is increasingly cloud-based, especially now. You want customers to be excited? Let them drive. Most won’t setup vendor accounts and learn cloud applications. But they understand web browsers.

    The things people complain about in LW, I actually see as strengths. If were up to me, here’s what I’d do:

    - build and maintain a basic set of really usable tools.
    - keep them separate apps, small and agile.
    - make it so you can integrate them in a windowing system, if desired.
    - keep the LWS as it is (parsing text keeps things simple).
    - keep refining the SDK for indie developers.
    - continue to play well with others.

    New features are nice. But we’ll always use other apps to do certain things. Everyone would benefit if development reflected things that enable users to extend services to these other domains.

  11. #251
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andypete View Post
    It’s requirements that are defined in RFPs, proposals, contracts and bid packs that shape my interest in LightWave. That’s what NT should focus on. If you think of LightWave more generally (as an authoring environment) opportunities present themselves:

    BIM - it’s huge. You won’t replace Revit and Glue. But even modest sized contractors lack an internal capability. Fold in what LWCad offers as basic functionality, and you could disrupt the dataset world. Currently, if you need a manufacturer’s product model, you’re limited to proprietary formats.

    Engineering and development - same thing. Add i/o support for STEP, SAT and IGES. Build a decent meshing engine. Now you’ve gracefully extended the options for an organization’s product life-cycle development toolset.

    WebGL - work is increasingly cloud-based, especially now. You want customers to be excited? Let them drive. Most won’t setup vendor accounts and learn cloud applications. But they understand web browsers.

    The things people complain about in LW, I actually see as strengths. If were up to me, here’s what I’d do:

    - build and maintain a basic set of really usable tools.
    - keep them separate apps, small and agile.
    - make it so you can integrate them in a windowing system, if desired.
    - keep the LWS as it is (parsing text keeps things simple).
    - keep refining the SDK for indie developers.
    - continue to play well with others.

    New features are nice. But we’ll always use other apps to do certain things. Everyone would benefit if development reflected things that enable users to extend services to these other domains.
    Donīt think we are on the same page, personally..lw as an architectural tool or engineering..donīt think thatīs itīs main strength..never was, it has always been in the vfx for series and movies I dare to say..and not much in the modeling side that can compete with other tools out there, except for LW cad perhaps ..and some use it for archviz there..sure.

    But it needs to gain back to where the glory was..and Honesly, if they do not find a way to improve CPU speed or implent a GPU renderer as well as implement modeling tools in layout...these are the two essentials I dare to say, without it..LW may suffer a slow death...I am afraid..no way around it, they need a renderer that can match others in terms of speed, quality vice itīs almost there though noise and fireflies are a huge obstacle for many, ..so itīs the final output of render speed, and you need to have what all others software has for vfx..modeling tools in the scene/ layout....these are the biggest bottlenecks for attracting new customers as well.

    Even though I kind of like a split model version from time to time, I need model features in layout as well.



    Third and fourth is the UI overhaul, and dynamics overhaul to get all the bullet forces work in unison with eachoer, fluids, particles, rigid bodies and fractures, fractures need to connect to layout..and as such modeling in layout is needed (Itīs broken now by the way since 2019 somewhere..used to work) it would make fractures more directable and visual feedback with other events in layout..which modeler canīt do today.

    Youll never get any 3D construction design market for Lightwave in Sweden..Im convinced of that, it belongs to Autodesk, perhaps in other countries...and if so, itīs in the layout department with procedural non destructive history you could gain interest for archviz presentation that can be changed within a good render engine as well.

  12. #252
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    For every month that goes by without Lightwave 2020 my expectations for it increase a bit each month regarding features and production readiness and overall polish once it does get released. Anyone else feel the same?
    Also known as "wishful thinking". ;-)

    Seriously though, if Newtek is thinking of launching 2020 (or 2021) in May, they'd better keep track of B's planned 2.83 release next month. Might be wise to release either this month or in June to avoid have the wind blocked by B's large sails.

    Quote Originally Posted by pauland View Post

    I guess I'm just a little frustrated that maybe finally it's time as a hobbyist to say goodbye to LW. When I first decided to buy it (LW 4.0) you could find people using it, articles, training, everywhere, now it seems only to exist on this forum. Feels that way anyway.
    Things change: the only constant in the universe. If we do not adapt, we are left behind.

    All the buzz, training, and good vibes have moved on to other communities: it is what it is.
    Visit the Blender, Houdini, Unreal, and zBrush communities to rekindle the creative fire.


    Quote Originally Posted by RPSchmidt View Post

    1. Enhanced VDB tools to include presets
    2. GUI overhaul to include dockable panels

    These two are low hanging fruit, and ought to be within the realms of possibility. The other fruits on your list grow on the highest branches, and remain out of reach, I expect, for at least another 5 years, if ever they are picked.

    Unification is a pipe dream at this point, in my opinion. The way to achieve unification in your 3d workflow is by switching to an alternative.
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  13. #253
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas Jordan View Post
    For every month that goes by without Lightwave 2020 my expectations for it increase a bit each month regarding features and production readiness and overall polish once it does get released. Anyone else feel the same?
    Nope. IMO, the further the delay, the more it proves poor planning/scheduling (because they're "off" by ever greater relative percentage), and the more likely another "just ship it, we'll fix it in a patch" occurred.

    When it comes to Newtek/VizRT and LW, very little evidence I've seen historically reinforces "more time" / "missed schedule" yielding "better result". If anything, they historically yield the opposite.
    Last edited by jwiede; 04-14-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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  14. #254
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    Do features really matter?

    How much does new feature X make to the future of LW?

    I used to work for a company making (non-3D) software and we had a rival. Both companies were about the same size. Our company had done some seriously impressive engineering and it was considered that we had a far superior product than our rival. I believe that was true. It used to be a joke at meetings: "What's the best hardware platform to run <rival-software> on?" Answer: "A 35mm slide projector". How we laughed and it was actually true.

    I can say that the rival company blossomed because our company was poor at presenting a superior product while they were superb at presenting an inferior offering. The result was that they got orders, out-performed us financially with a poorer product. They are now a huge corporation and my old company a tiny shadow of itself.

    So what you say? Well what sells anything is seeing it in action and seeing it in use. When people see something that impresses they want to do the same, irregardless of anything else - bullet points are less important than wow factors out there in the wild.

    LW needs some serious wow factors out there, minor bullet point features are just reordering deckchairs.

    LW need some showmanship not just engineering.

  15. #255

    nah, delay... who cares anymore, it has been like that for 20 years  (or close to)





    a long wait can only mean one thing.... invasion!
    ...correction, ....i mean, that they are still working on it.

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