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Thread: Seriously NewTek... This is your best moment for LW2020

  1. #16
    I would say now is better than later with neither being a 'good' choice.
    For now, freelancers hoping to take advantage of their last paychecks for upgrades; later, those same freelancers might be out of work for some time, unable to think about, nevertheless pay for, an upgrade.
    Rough times...
    Robert Wilson, MA Deaf Ed.
    Indiana Deaf School
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  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    regarding rendertime, have you seen this ?

    Yes, and thank you for doing that! I've got all the rebelHill materials, I've played with everything except the latest dpont Intel de-noiser developments simply because of limited time for experimentation, and here's the issues...

    1.) I KNOW how to optimize 2015 for a good look across a wide variety of scenes. And I can get close with 2019, but there's always some noise show-stopper that requires a big boost in render time to get equal looking pictures.
    2.) I have many projects that come back from the past for updates or I need to pillage for assets. I just this week pulled up a 2004 job to steal my models and setups for reuse. Every one of these projects comes down to a time-analysis; is it quicker to just continue on with 2015 or rebuild all the assets and surfaces for 2019?
    3.) In the few cases I have done the rebuilding for 2019, I then hit point #1 all over again. My "solution" was to take and update my 3 machine render farm to the best specs I can afford, which now is 2 3950X and a 1950X Threadripper.
    4.) It's the volume... If I was doing still images, or short shots, no worries... but for the last science documentary I provided 18min of animations for a 42min show. That's 18min at UHD, with countless iterations on some of the material at lower rez.

    For me, to jump in to one of these later versions and not look back requires some confidence that I won't hit a roadblock due to render times that seem to bloom to 2X-4X the 2015 render times just to break even. Undoubtedly everyone has a different experience with the style and kind of rendering they do... I just haven't found the way to pound out relatively nice renders over many minutes of materials. Jumping over on new projects to Blender completely blows any time-metrics I've gathered out the window, which is a a good thing actually. It's a different look, but I'm learning to refine it, the times seem reasonable and I have to say that there is a certain vibrancy in culture about the program that I haven't seen from LW in some time.

    I remember the jump from LW 5.6 to LW 6.0 and the increase in render times due to the greater bit depth and precision... I was able to "catch-up" with one generation of computers, but now, I've had TWO generations and still haven't hit what I call a reasonable threshold for volume production on my three machine business model I've had since the early 2000's...

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMarchant View Post
    Agreed and that's what they have to weigh up. Wonder how LW fits into all of this https://www.vizrt.com/products
    Just for sh*ts and giggles, I clicked on the link. Lightwave is not listed. I then searched for "Lightwave". Bupkis.

    Searching for "Newtek" brings up a "Partners" page, https://www.vizrt.com/vizrt/partners/newtek, referencing only video hardware:

    "NewTek offers a turn-key IP video Viz Trio/Viz Engine system called NVG1 that is sold through NewTek sales channels.", blah, blah, blah.

    Maybe VizRT doesn't know/care about Lightwave. As long as there's ANY LW dev team, there's still hope!

  4. #19
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imageshoppe View Post
    I remember the jump from LW 5.6 to LW 6.0 and the increase in render times due to the greater bit depth and precision... I was able to "catch-up" with one generation of computers, but now, I've had TWO generations and still haven't hit what I call a reasonable threshold for volume production on my three machine business model I've had since the early 2000's...
    ...because the latest jump in rendering hardware evolved on the GPU. If a modern render engine does not support this, it is sort-of handicapped for a lot of work.
    Win10 64 - i7 [email protected], p6t Deluxe v1, 48gb, Nvidia GTX 1080 8GB, Revodrive X2 240gb, e-mu 1820. Screens: 2 x Samsung s27a850ds 2560x1440, HP 1920x1200 in portrait mode

  5. #20
    Pär Mostad Meshbuilder's Avatar
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    I hope they will add LightWave to the list soon. This text is a copy of what they write about Maxon / Cinema 4D but I change everything so it is about LightWave. Sounds nicer

    LightWave 3DŽ

    The integration allows projects from LightWave 3DŽ to be directly imported into Viz Artist. Vizrt's integration with Newtek's 3D modeling, rendering and animation software, LightWave 3DŽ, allows projects from LightWave 3DŽ to be directly imported into*Viz Artist. Included is LightWave 3DŽ Viz-Bridge, Newtek’s new live link update tool. The integration is now available to customers with Viz Engine and Viz Artist version 3.7.0.

    “This is the most complete import of geometries, lights and animations into Viz Artist and Viz Engine from any 3D package,” said Gerhard Lang, Chief Engineering Officer at Vizrt. “LightWave 3DŽ layout scenes are imported directly into Viz Artist without the need for LightWave 3DŽ to be installed on the Viz Artist workstation. LWO objects are imported either as their direct primitive object counterpart in Viz Artist or as meshes.”

    LightWave 3DŽ Viz-Bridge, the new live link update tool integrated into Viz Artist, allows designers to make changes to a scene in LightWave 3DŽ and see them updated live when Viz Artist is set to on-air mode. Viz-Bridge updates objects as well as container properties such as position and scaling.

    “As a 3D manufacturer with a strong focus on the broadcast market, we are very excited to partner with one of the most renowned and innovative players in this industry,” said Dr. Andrew Cross, president of R&D at Newtek. “Our collaboration with the teams at Vizrt was very enjoyable and efficient, and we are very excited to deliver a ground-breaking new workflow experience to Vizrt artists with the new live link to LightWave 3DŽ.”

    “Newtek provided a very good SDK (software developer kit) that we were able to easily integrate with. They have been an excellent partner while developing the new integration,” added Lang.

  6. #21

    the real shop stopper in LightWave 2019 is the Anti-Aliasing.

    GPU would certainly help, and hope they add that too, but just fixing that slow AA algorithm would fix lots.

    rendering in LW2019 is different, better in many ways, tho' i can see how it can be less of a beast for ArchViz exterior.

    they have 3 choices >
    - speed up AA
    - integrate Cycles
    - or add GPU support
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Meshbuilder View Post
    I hope they will add LightWave to the list soon. This text is a copy of what they write about Maxon / Cinema 4D but I change everything so it is about LightWave. Sounds nicer
    So, VizRT plays nice with Maxon/Cinema 4D, an independent company, but they OWN Lightwave, and nary a peep.

    What.
    The.
    Flock?!?!?!?

  8. #23
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    My guess is VizRT only merged to acquire Lightwave, and couldn't care less about TriCaster or any other hardware.....

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    the real shop stopper in LightWave 2019 is the Anti-Aliasing.

    GPU would certainly help, and hope they add that too, but just fixing that slow AA algorithm would fix lots.

    rendering in LW2019 is different, better in many ways, tho' i can see how it can be less of a beast for ArchViz exterior.

    they have 3 choices >
    - speed up AA
    - integrate Cycles
    - or add GPU support
    I'm hoping we see something significant for rendering as well but they may just have the attitude that if people want GPU they can get Octane instead. It would be nice to have a speed up in the render engine in some way other than having to reduce the quality.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  10. #25

    Octane (partly owned by AutoDesk) doesn't fly well with some of us.
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    Octane (partly owned by AutoDesk) doesn't fly well with some of us.
    It would be amazing if Adrian was right about Vray Next capability, though I'm not sure how licenses would work, since Vray licensing confuses me the most...seem to be different per software.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    Octane (partly owned by AutoDesk) doesn't fly well with some of us.
    Ya I haven't jumped on the Octane wagon yet and probably never will. So far I've been managing the longer render times in Lightwave native engine with my 2990WX. I still prefer rendering on the CPU but it would also be nice to leverage the GPU as an option.
    Threadripper 2990WX, X399 MSI MEG Creation, 64GB 2400Mhz RAM, GTX 1070 Ti 8GB

    https://www.dynamicrenderings.com/

  13. #28
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    the real shop stopper in LightWave 2019 is the Anti-Aliasing.

    GPU would certainly help, and hope they add that too, but just fixing that slow AA algorithm would fix lots.

    rendering in LW2019 is different, better in many ways, tho' i can see how it can be less of a beast for ArchViz exterior.

    they have 3 choices >
    - speed up AA
    - integrate Cycles
    - or add GPU support
    There is more real show stopper, though AA is one of the biggest,
    They also need to tackle the workflow which has gone to disconnected and node required.

    The newer VDB stuff they can´t just lay there in the next updates, it was very interesting..but it´s not even half done I think, when they can improve the gas solver so it leverage the concept of fluids to a different level, then it will really be competitive, currently it´s not something I would rely on for any serious productive workflow.

    They would need to adress the horrible tick openGL presentation to be properly recognizable as a volume, and also not maintain it as the currently Slowest display out there for any fluids.
    Some speed improvement and a framework UI/UX for using it better as a fluid tool.

  14. #29
    I thought a little more about my reluctance to move on from 2015 even though I purchased 2018 and 2019 promptly on release, and will do the same with 2020 or 2021 or Viz Whiz or whatever it will be called...

    ... The change up from 2015 to 2018 required all the effort of adapting your workflow to a revolutionary new product, but without the actual revolution happening. What I mean is that there are a few, new, nice features that seemed worth the upgrade, but haven't yet been actually worth the whole-scale change over to a new object format, the changes in surfacing, and the overall slowdown of the render itself.

    It doesn't mean I don't fire up 2019 and render now and then, but ONLY for things that 2015 can't do. As example, the volumetric clouds from this shot, which took every trick in the book over three computers to get rendered in a timely fashion in 2019, but the actual city structure had to be 2015 rendering due to the excessive time needed to get a clean, smooth image in 2019 with little aliasing and noise. It may not be as realistic as the PBR workflow of 2019, but I'll trade "nice" over "ratty" any day (there is some aliasing due to the downsample to the 1080p mp4 from Vegas Video) but the original is nice and clean...

    http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe...ORBIT_HIGH.mp4

  15. #30
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imageshoppe View Post
    I thought a little more about my reluctance to move on from 2015 even though I purchased 2018 and 2019 promptly on release, and will do the same with 2020 or 2021 or Viz Whiz or whatever it will be called...

    ... The change up from 2015 to 2018 required all the effort of adapting your workflow to a revolutionary new product, but without the actual revolution happening. What I mean is that there are a few, new, nice features that seemed worth the upgrade, but haven't yet been actually worth the whole-scale change over to a new object format, the changes in surfacing, and the overall slowdown of the render itself.

    It doesn't mean I don't fire up 2019 and render now and then, but ONLY for things that 2015 can't do. As example, the volumetric clouds from this shot, which took every trick in the book over three computers to get rendered in a timely fashion in 2019, but the actual city structure had to be 2015 rendering due to the excessive time needed to get a clean, smooth image in 2019 with little aliasing and noise. It may not be as realistic as the PBR workflow of 2019, but I'll trade "nice" over "ratty" any day (there is some aliasing due to the downsample to the 1080p mp4 from Vegas Video) but the original is nice and clean...

    http://files.datausa.com/imageshoppe...ORBIT_HIGH.mp4
    There lies a problem with that approach, and for critics in your clip, the flying building structure doesn´t seem to belong there in the scene in the clouds.
    The surface seem to be reflective, but doesn´t seem to reflect the environment, and some other lighting and shading issues I think.

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