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Thread: EmberGen to Eevee Update VDB Rendering

  1. #16
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    so what’s the point of rendering in lightwave ? serious question
    When you need other items to render as well, and just not the fluids.
    Wether or not you use Lightwave or octane, or blender..Thatīs anothr question you may have to ask

  2. #17
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Just installed the Demo, canīt find that it would allow for VDB export in Demo mode right? I would think that is only in the commercial version?

    Ahh...got my invitation mail a little late somehow...hereīs the info..



    "We plan to release EmberGen in three different phases:

    Phase 1 - Invitation Only Early Access (Alpha): Pre-ordering at this stage will give you instant unrestricted access to our current Alpha build. View page 4 of our brochure to see what EmberGen is missing feature wise. As long as your license is valid you will receive all updates that we release. Without purchasing a license, you cannot export flipbooks, VDB files, or image sequences. A trial in Phase 2 will allow you to test data exports free of charge.

    Phase 2 - Public Early Access (Beta): Pre-ordering at this stage will give you instant unrestricted access to our Beta builds. During this phase, you will be able to test data exports with our free trial. We will enter this phase when our node graph functionality is complete.

    Phase 3 - MVP/Version 1.0 Release: This is the final phase in our EmberGen release cycle, and it will indicate that EmberGen is production ready. From here, we will start our stable development cycle, and continue to add great new features and ensure that our UI is polished. Our free trial for this version will allow you to export data to ensure that the software works for you."


    I think they need to work a lot on the UI though.

  3. #18
    Registered User 3dhotshot's Avatar
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    Well done this looks really good !!! So we have a replacement for TFD since the workflow in embergen is lightyears ahead of TFD and in real time ....

  4. #19
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dhotshot View Post
    Well done this looks really good !!! So we have a replacement for TFD since the workflow in embergen is lightyears ahead of TFD and in real time ....
    But..itīs a split app aproach, with the necessity to to port objects and simulations to embergen, and you may miss out on weight emission on objects as well.
    That has to be compared against the option to have a really fast simulation for the actual fluid sim though.

    I am not that fond of split app approaches, unfortunately though..I can not test that approach for free.

  5. #20
    Registered User 3dhotshot's Avatar
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    You should ask the developer directly about weight emissions I'm sure will be addressed in the beta release. I will ask about plugin options as well

  6. #21

    Oooooo..... Nice!


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  7. #22
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    Oooooo..... Nice!


    Still..to remember itīs purpose it was mainly designed for, mostly game industry and creating sprites/flipbooks.

    For film VFX or cinematics..
    for Rendering..quite awesome in realtime, but I think it kind of lacks the full spectrum of a PBR volume and much thicker volumes and shadows, the blackbody scattering is awesomethough, and control of amount of it, or fire mix, chaning oxygon amount etc and how it affects the look of it, and just changing vorticity to have realtime changes feedback.

    As for UI, think it needs a lot of improvement, window isnīt full scale, the control panel is a bit wonky.

    As for import export.
    Now I am just using the Demo so maybe the other versions has better/more options...for the Demo I can not load any objects in so hard to say anything about that, can not export VDB either.
    It would need to deal with particle emitters from another system, as well as bullet bodies/fractures...and where the status is there I do not know.

    I would suspect Jascha may be releasing something more interesting for us who aim for film VFX, unless JangaFX targes this app to be more friendly for FilmFX.


    Most crucial would probably be how you will be able to import camera, motions, bullet dynamics, soft bodies, partciles etc to work inside Embergen, then researching wether or not it woud be good enough to render fluids as seperate passes in embergen and the rest in your main app, or if you should go for exporting to VDB and render it in full scene context, as a two split app, you would sometime have issues with a simulation in need for resimulation if you choose to change the scenery dynamicly, or add other elements along the way.

    As for the free demo, ..itīs kind of mesmerizing to play around with though

  8. #23
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    A lot is missing still, mesh emitters and so on...

    Testing vorticity detail...in realtime effect, wouldnīt you want that in blender fluids, TFD etc...

  9. #24
    Mesh emitters and collision are coming this month.

  10. #25
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    As for blender fluids natively, I am not happy with how mantaflow works...and that is in regards to the old system, mantaflow feels slow to render (yes..lowered resolution) and doesnīt update properly, no way to clear cache etc..odd results.
    But I may need to work more with it to see whatīs the deal with it.

    I prefered the older system ..but Need to compare the sim and render results.

  11. #26
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Some more free VDB samples to download, since I tested previously..they should work fine in Lightwave as well.



    https://jangafx.com/software/emberge...db-animations/



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  12. #27
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Itīs fast and so cool, and also yielding nice results, however..I canīt see me get what I need from it, unless I can use it in conjunction with either blender or lightwave fractures, and bullet dynamics..which means it needs to be able to import that later, currently you can only import static meshes, or use embergens meshes for colliding and forces.
    You can currently not use any animated mesh at all, they need to do research on that.

    Some updates with demos of the latest versions..


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Mesh emitters and collision are coming this month.
    Only internal.

  13. #28
    Electron wrangler jwiede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Itīs fast and so cool, and also yielding nice results, however..I canīt see me get what I need from it, unless I can use it in conjunction with either blender or lightwave fractures, and bullet dynamics..which means it needs to be able to import that later, currently you can only import static meshes, or use embergens meshes for colliding and forces.
    You can currently not use any animated mesh at all, they need to do research on that.
    But, being realistic, would you buy it even if they did add all that?
    John W.
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  14. #29
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwiede View Post
    But, being realistic, would you buy it even if they did add all that?
    Depends on price...and how well the intergration works when exporting a scene with bullet fracturing, there are a lot of speed gain in simulating it, and also tweaking the fluid sim ...which gives you a kind of artistic freedom to actually
    see what happens extremely fast, but you would still have to deal with exporting back and render it often slow, unless having octane or using blenders octane, or cycles, ecycles.

    The sim works ok to import to Lightwave, though a bit slow considering they are large sets, but thatīs what you need for good enough quality, I havenīt tried importing and render in blender volume vdb branch yet.

    I can compare to simulating in blender initially ..which is very slow if you aim for getting artifact free sims over to lightwave, which requires over 200 in grid resolution and doubling 2x in highres upresing...for a decently large fire plume or explosion.


    And it also depends if Jascha can get something going for his next release, but it needs to be using the same volumetric handler as the new Lightwave system does, TFD sims is decently fast anyway I think..at least compared to blenders in highres.

    However, neither TFD or Embergen will be able to use the same dynamics system all across the elements, which Only blender can do, or houdini and some other software ( wind, and forces affecting bullet bodies, particles, and fluids)

    Had Blender been much more faster in simulation, and also had a little better solver ..there would be no question on what I would choose.

    Weight emission -check
    OpenGL fire and smoke -check
    Particle advection - check
    GPU render -check
    Multiple scattering decent speed rendering - check.

    None of that is possible today with Lightwave and TFD (octane exluded)
    LWīs VDB Gas solver however allows for Weight emission using density channels, but they are so horrible in opengl presentation and simulation speed and UI framework..not fun to use.

    And consider I am currently without a job, that may affect what I choose to focus on for the nearest future anyway, and as such..blender solutions may be a priority, but then again..I do not like mantaflow...itīs clunky to work with, doesnīt update properly, and much more.

  15. #30
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    I do hope that they have worked more extensively on the vdb gas solver, they just canīt release a new major version with that as it was previously, it would definitely bring down my
    impression and urge to upgrade.

    Either they start to enhance on the crude simulations OpenGL presentation and the convoluted workflow it currently has.
    Currently as I know of, we can not just start the fire shading directly within a gas solver sim, it first has to be written to cache, then that cache reloaded back to the respective emission and density channels in the VDB properties...only to get the fire shading going, itīs not like working directly with a fluid simulator in TFD or Blender, those already have those channels connected.

    Perhaps some way of telling the fluid system to also write these channels to memory somewhere, not sure, or to automaticly connect those channels back ..so we faster can adjust fire and smoke.

    What I do like is the kind of nice soft whispy turbulence the gas solver can yield, but at the same time the controls for that is much more complex I think than TFD or blender vorticity, and also what I especially like with lightwaveīs Gas solver, that is that we can use the particles velocity grid as input to the force of the gas solver, if we use a mesh to volume on a mesh that is, but use a seperate particle emitter, this will allow for pushing the fluids with the particles velocity, but not generated by it as in blender or TFD..and this allows for a fluid motion that isnīt presenting blobs based on particle size.

    I donīt think TurbulenceFD or blender has that feature, someone please jump in and correct me if I am wrong.

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